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Did Margaret have any relatives in Canada that she could have been going to?

the year she traveled, at other times 2 other McKee people went from Belfast,also using the same shipping company,,Canadian Paciffic who seem to be the main liner co.on round trip out of Belfast by the Metagama .

Robert McKee 18 and a farmer.

Elizabeth McKee-- ?? (mis as McKie).a collar maker,.


From a newspaper clipping.8th March 1926.

It cost £3 for 3rd class for **approved** people who were migrating,,,,a year or longer was classed as migration !

and possibly arrangements were made ahead of arrival.to have a job to go to,?or she went as a domestic with a family.?if so then things may have taken a sour turn when she got pregnant. and with John she maybe sent for help from family to get her back home.?

My thinking is that Margaret just emigrated under the usual banner, as a domestic, without getting into the personal complications.

If it weren't for the two births some time apart, I would think that Margaret was just 'deceived' and abandoned. But perhaps she was. After the first child died at birth, things carried on; when the second pregnancy occurred and John was not willing to do the right thing, she came home with the child. That would not be an unusual situation. 'She was poor, but she was honest ...'

There certainly doesn't seem to be a death record for John in Ontario around 1930-1931.

What I wonder is whether Margaret might then have gone to England for work as a domestic, after leaving her child with her sister.

We don't know her date of birth, very unfortunately, as that could help find a death in England if that was the case.

I might wonder about this death:

Name: Margaret Agnes McKee
Birth Date: Jun 1905
Date of Registration: Dec 1973
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 640

Margaret's age on the incoming passenger list in April 1931 was 25, which would match with a June 1905 birth (not yet 26 in April 1931).

On the 1955 electoral roll that Margaret is living at 63 Brook Avenue with an Yvonne Fevre. In 1953 Paul Fevre was also there. Before that, the couple was on Edgware Lane and I do not see that Margaret anywhere. The couple is at different addresses from 1947, and in 1952 at the Brook Ave address that Margaret is not with them.

I don't see a marriage in England/Wales that would account for the name Margaret Agnes McKee, or a birth to match there or in Ireland for that name.

Could this have been a late registration of that birth?

Name Margaret Agnes Mckee
Event Type Birth
Event Date Oct - Dec 1910
Event Place Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1910
Registration District Belfast
Volume Number 1
Page Number 144


I'm confused by your post on page 1 about where everyone was in the 1901 census.

'1901 census - Margaret was in her daughter Agnes house, looking after Annie who was 1. Agnes was in the Rectory, as she was a house servant.'

So our Margaret's mother was Agnes, and Agnes's mother was Margaret?

Could this logically make our Margaret = Margaret Agnes?

but where was our Margaret in 1911?

EDIT - found them:

McKee John 59 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Church farm labourer
McKee Agnes 33 Female Wife Presbyterian Church
McKee Maggie 4 Female Daughter Presbyterian Church

so they were not the wealthy family



About the baby who died at birth: he would very likely have been buried in an unmarked grave in the children's section. This was very common; people did not have the resources for graves and gravestones. You could ask the cemetery what records they might have. I was recently able to get info from an Ontario cemetery about a child in an unmarked grave: the section number of the cemetery, but no identified plot.

Wow, this is great.
I am unsure about the John Edward Kerr. Unless she worked for him as a domestic but would he have put his name on the birth certificate?? I guess its not him if the John Kerr father, lived in 580 Ontario street, unless that was the address of the barrister!

I have looked up all the graves in Mt. Hope cemetery but can not find one for the baby, although it states Mt.Hope on his burial certificate!

Maybe he just decided he didn't want to be a father and left them. That could be why they came back alone, or maybe he died between Jan - April? Or maybe he was married :-( There are so many possibilities, I think I will go to my grave without really knowing who John Kerr was, where did he come from and where did he go :-(

This has been posted a lot of times now, hasn't it? :-)

Starting when I posted it on page 1:

Name: Margaret McKee
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Birth Date: 1907
Departure Date: 8 May 1926
(although your Margaret would have turned 20 then)
Port of Departure: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Destination Port: Quebec, Canada
Ship Name: Metagama

That's the one that gives no details about destination.

ooookay, now I get it. There are two images for the same set of passengers.

(Not uncommon, someone in my family who emigrated, actually the same year, has the same thing ... one list with a lot of details, one list with a different name and no details! I was very confused for some time until I realized it was the same list of people.)

The one transcribed without a surname is a terrible image, impossible to read unless you know what you're looking for.

Exactly like my rellie's, it is the typed version of the list including the second page facing where details of destination are shown:

Born in Crumlin
age 19
domestic
mother Mrs Agnes McKee, Crumlin
destined to Salvation Army, Toronto (that is a stamp on the page)
stamped in as a landed immigrant.

Are those details somewhere in this thread and I can't see them?!

There are numerous 'Salvation Army' and 'YMCA' stamps in that column for various people. I suspect that someone arriving as a domestic, for instance, was steered there on landing.

Margaret apparently did not give John's name as her destination perhaps because this was a big secret and she had told friends and family she was simply emigrating as a domestic.

Sandra any thoughts about that John Edward Kerr??

(it's on Ancestry as below Margaret, with no surname, lol, so probably why you couldn't find!)

Chris :)

Margaret abt 1907 16 May 1926 Montreal, Quebec, Canada Belfast, Northern Ireland Metagama

But that one matches the outgoing passenger list that was posted, same ship, Metagama, left UK 8 May arrived Quebec 16 May.

I just don't understand why it isn't on Ancestry where it would give more info like where she's heading and who she's going to join.

Jooniecloonie - I am quite sure they didn't marry. Its just strange that she came back here on her own with a baby! I wonder did he die?

MargaretM - I have another Margaret Mckee sent to me in my thread, who I think is more likely as the address is perfect!

I think the John is not the right one, as he would be Catholic.

Finally found her arrival in Canada but it doesn't tell us anything:

: Margaret McKee

Given Name(s):MargaretSurname:McKeeAge:19Gender:FNationality:IrShip:METAGAMAPort of Arrival:Quebec, QuebecDate of Arrival:1926-05-16Year of Arrival:1926Volume Number:4Page Number:83Series:C-1-aMicrofilm Reel Number:T-14722Reference:RG 76Item Number:643666

I really don't think Margaret and John married.

Ontario marriages are available at familysearch and Ancestry up to 1931 (85 year rule). There is no marriage there.

Margaret really would not have travelled back to Ireland as McKee if she was married. She would have had her passport altered or reissued in her married name. Travelling alone with her child who did not have her same surname would have been rather embarrassing. The child would have been added to her passport so having a passport in her married name would have been no extra burden.

Also there doesn't seem to be a record of Margaret leaving Ireland again, although one can never rule out bad transcriptions and the like.

There is one John E Kerr in Toronto on the voters lists ... a barrister ... but unfortunately his wife is Laura.

There are seriously just too many John, 'Mrs John' and 'Mrs Margaret' Kerrs on the voters lists (you can't search for people together and have to look at each record to see whether one name is with the other) that even finding a couple with those names would not tell you whether it was them.

Some passenger lists do give information about the person a passenger is going to, and the address. All the 1926 list says for Margaret is that she is 19, a housekeeper, and intending to reside permanently in Canada.


There are a couple of possibles for John 1922-1926 if he sailed from Belfast - others if he sailed from elsewhere.
this looks the most likely

Name: John E Kerr
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Birth Date: abt 1903
Departure Date: 24 Apr 1926
Port of Departure: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Destination Port: Quebec, Canada
Ship Name: Montcalm

(although it would not have left time to land and get a message back to Margaret or anything like that before she sailed on 8 May)

age 23
last address Linghill Roses Lane Ends, Co. Antrim
occupation farming
country of last permanent residence N Ireland
intended country of residence Canada

(we can get you these images once things are sorted out)


there is a photo of Roses Lane Ends here (it is in Glenavy, it says ... I don't know the geography):

https://familysearch.org/photos/artifacts/6512743

edit - aha, google maps says:

Glenavy
Crumlin
UK

it is about a mile south of Crumlin and the Crumlin Rd runs through it.


There is a John Edward Kerr in this household in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Legatirriff/Lurgill/198996/

Residents of a house 27 in Lurgill (Legatirriff, Antrim)

Kerr Jane Anna 45 Female Head of Family Presbyterian Belfast - Married
Kerr Elizabeth 18 Female Daughter Presbyterian Belfast
Kerr Thomas S 17 Male Son Presbyterian Belfast Grocer
Kerr Samuel S 16 Male Son Presbyterian Belfast Grocer
Kerr Mary 12 Female Daughter Presbyterian Belfast Scholar
Kerr Herbert 11 Male Son Presbyterian Belfast Scholars
Kerr John Edward 8 Male Son Presbyterian Belfast Scholar
Kerr Henry Desmond 2 Male Son Presbyterian Co Antrim -

google finds me that Legatirriff is in Ballinderry civil parish - and Ballinderry is about 3 miles farther south from Glenavy

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/legatirriff/


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBKV-83J

Name John Edward Kerr ?
Event Type Birth
Event Date Jul - Sep 1902
Event Place Belfast, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1902
Registration District Belfast
Volume Number 1
Page Number 371

Well my husband has had a brainwave! My Dad used to say that his mum & dad eloped to Canada to get married, as they were not permitted to wed at home. He said one was wealthy and one was poor.

Now my theory is - Margaret McKee came from a family of staunch Presbyterians. The infant who died was buried in Hope St. Catholic Cemetery, so presumably John Kerr was Catholic!
There are several families of Kerr's living in Co.Antrim, who care Catholic. I totally discounted them as possibilities and was looking for Presbyterians!! These Kerr's were farmers, who might have had money.

I think John went on ahead, as he was not on the ship with Margaret. He might have got somewhere to live and employment before sending her the money to come over.

Can someone with access to the passenger records look for a John McKee going to Canada, before Margaret did in 1926 please? :-D :-D

Of course, you are right. She would have had a passport.

Sandra...Just a thought....If Margaret required a passport to go to Canada she would have had it in the name McKee..absolutely nothing to stop her using the same passport to travel back to Ireland even if she was married.

Patchem = I saw that, it was nice to see where he was born.

Dea - Maragaret didn't immigrate until 1926. Would she have had to put an actual address that she was going too at that time?

1921 census did not show anyone related at that address ..........

Dea Xxx

Just out of interest, these are 576, 578, 580 etc Ontario Street today:


http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ihl/

AustinQ

I am guessing that this is Margaret , it really has to be her. I have found the baby's death certificate and the father's address is noted as

580 Ontario Street. The baby was born in St.Marys Hospital and died at less than 1 day old of acute dilatation of the heart. It was buried in Mt.Hope, undertaker J.A.Connors

Quite a lot of info there.
Is there any way I can find out information on John kerr with having his address?

I just wanted to confirm that the 1926 passenger list that Jonnie posted for Margaret going to Canada is correct:

Name: Margaret McKee
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Birth Date: abt 1907
Occ: Housekeeper
Last UK Address: Crosshill Co. Antrim
Intended permanent residence: Canda
Departure Date: 8 May 1926
Port of Departure: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Destination Port: Quebec, Canada
Ship Name: Metagama
Shipping line: Canadian Pacific Railway
Official Number: 136791
Master: A Freer

Birth records in Ontario are not publicly accessible until 100 years after the birth.

Death records are accessible earlier than that, which is why the 1929 death is on line. The lucky thing is that most records indexed on line show the deceased person's parents' name, as here.

It seems that John and Margaret had a child before your John, and that child died in infancy.

Remember that the info given in a death record is only as good as the information provided by the person who reported it.

Margaret would not have had to prove that she was married. Not even when the birth itself was registered. Anyway it doesn't say they were married, I think. It just says the parents' names.

I've lost the thread a little bit here, but Margaret travelled back to the UK as McKee not Kerr, so it seems they were not married.

Ontario marriages 1928-1929 are accessible on line. No marriage is showing. There are scads of marriages for the name John Kerr 1920-1929.

People did not generally need documentation for travelling the way we do today.


Sandra, the business about a professional guarantor is only if you are applying for your own birth certificate.

I copied the info about applying for a deceased person's birth certificate, above.

Your father's death certificate + your birth certificate showing he was your father should be adequate. They will tell you anything else, it seems. I have never done this, I'm just reading the instructions. :-)

Ancestry has Canadian electoral rolls but only 1935 to 1975. There are so many John Kerrs there, just like everywhere else, that it would be impossible to identify him, even if you found one with a wife Margaret. And in my experience searching those lists, women in the early days were called "Mrs John Kerr" on the lists anyway.