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Thank you for your replies everyone. I guess I will never find out what happened to John Kerr? Why leave Canada with a young baby but not his father. I was thinking perhaps that her employers could not keep her on because of the baby and then there was also a recession hitting the country. It's strange that you can have an actual address of someone but it leads to no information whatsoever about him :-( :-(

ArgyllGran is certainly right, it would be as in England: no father named if parents not married and father not present to register.

Possibly she gave the father's name first, and then came the question 'are you married?' or something like that, or she gave her name and it wasn't Kerr ...

You're actually very lucky the 'mistake' was made so there is a record there of the father's surname (as reported by the mother) even though there should not have been! :-)

For the 'children born alive' question, my only experience with that is on a couple of Australian birth certificates in my family c1890. From memory since I don't have them handy, I think the 'children born alive' question refers to previous children, i.e. not counting the child being registered. So 'one' would be the correct answer when the birth of a second child was registered, I think.

Maybe he had to be registered as McKee if Mr Kerr wasn't willing to be named as his father, and the entry had to be corrected.

Mimico is part of Toronto:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimico

Mimico is a neighbourhood and a former municipality in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, being located in the south-west area of Toronto on Lake Ontario. It is in the south-east corner of the former Township (and later, City) of Etobicoke, and was an independent municipality from 1911 to 1967.

Mimico is the oldest of the former Lakeshore Municipalities. The Town of Mimico was established by a plan of sub-division in 1856, but was not sub-divided from the former Township of Etobicoke until 1911. The land area of Mimico originated mainly from three family farms, namely: Stock Estate (North of Portland), Hendry Estate (between Royal York and Queens Ave), Van Every Estate (between Royal York Rd and Dwight Ave). Mimico was an independent municipality until 1967, when it was amalgamated into the new Borough of Etobicoke (later, City of, in 1984), which was itself amalgamated in 1998 into the current city of Toronto.

Well today the birth certificate arrived!!! It's bitter sweet. There is no father's name on the certificate, just an empty section. To say I am gutted, is an understatement!

There are a few strange anomalies on it - FULL NAME OF CHILD is filled in John Kenneth McKee, however you can plainly see under the McKee, it says Kerr. The McKee is written over in a heavier ink, with different handwriting to the rest!

Section 19 - CHILDREN OF THE MOTHER - Margaret has written ONE for children born alive, when this was her second birth.

A THIRD style of handwriting has scored out TORONTO as residence and written, what looks like Mimico, Ontario.

Any input to this would be welcome :-S

Just recapping - Salvation Army Records - have you been i n touch with them? They keep their records going a long way back.

www.salvationarmy.ca/contact/

Just in case, go into the site and see what they offer by way of the schemes they ran for bring migrants to Canada. You can google them in Toronto too!

Good luck.
Peahen

The arrival document stated she was going to Salvation Army, Toronto. I know they had a big operation going at that time when they brought over child workers and adults to fill gaps in their industry, mainly as domestics, servants. I am guessing they took them en mass to their intended destinations.

Another thought is the distance between Quebec and Toronto - over 800 kms - how did they travel - must have had help - thinking church here.

Peahen

So pleased to hear this and you WILL get the information in due course. Your mind is working 20 to the dozen so rest up and consolidate and all will fall into place.

I would like to thank Joonie for her tenacity and help she gives all Canadian requests - it is she who helped me and the information on the Canadian Site.

I am always waiting eagerly for your results!!

I would like to say that if you think this is taking time, try the Russian Archives - months before a reply of any sort and then it says you will hear in 20 weeks! I have learnt a lot - mainly in the area of patience.

Thanks helpers - better than Ancestry!

Peahen

Hi Peahen, I have submitted all the necessary paperwork that they have asked for and they have confirmed that the paperwork is complete. I phoned the Ontario. Ca customer service number last week and after 5 minutes of confirming everything I submitted to them, the lady put me on hold for a few minutes, then said she was going to send the researchers an email to push them along. She advised if I did not hear anything within 4 weeks to ring back. It's all taking so long!!! I am wondering if his mother even registered his birth in Canada. When she brought him back to Crumlin aged 3 months old, could she have done so without a birth certificate?

Hello Sandra and all helpers on this,

I sent for a death certificate for my uncle who died in Canada in 1931. There are many forms to complete and they ask for certain information and details to confirm your relationship etc.,

This was B.C; they took their time to search for me (Free of charge) and once located the information, I then had to produce all sorts of family certificates - originals. I cannot praise them enough for the information I finally received and their dedication is without question.

May I suggest you complete the forms on line, where you do not have the requested information or documents you put an * and at the end you state what you have or do not have and let them com back to you. Or attach (copy and paste if applying on line) a covering letter. They will help you all the way, despite it seeming long and drawn out, the wait and frustration is worth it.

I have followed this with interest and would add the Presbyterian Church is strict but fiercely dedicated to its members and their families - thinking Paisley here - and there is not doubt that the Canadian authorities would have the information you require unless there is something unforeseen and then they will inform you of this.

By the way - all sorts of reasons why they were in Canada. Farming was the reason for my uncle being sent there in the late 1920's and this was the case of many young men at that time.

Good luck, (to not know does eat away at ones mind)

Peahen

There'd be no harm in sending an email to enquire whether your paperwork is complete!

Well I am still waiting on my certificate. I am hoping that since they haven't contacted me, my paperwork was Aok!

I meant to post this first:

Well, either I was wrong about guarantors or someone in the vital records office is an idiot. :-) (or actually figured out what I was saying before!)

well it's a long shot ...

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=52249705

Sgt. John Kerr

Birth: Nov. 24, 1898
Death: Jan. 12, 1971

Inscription:
11471
R.C.M.P.

Burial:
Grey Mountain Cemetery
Whitehorse
Yukon Census Division
Yukon, Canada
Plot: B-004

Created by: Rod Carty
Record added: May 11, 2010
Find A Grave Memorial# 52249705

The same cemetery has a Helen Kerr died 1978 but there are no details. The person who created the memorial pages does not seem to be related (and the 'virtual flower' is from someone who remembers Canadian veterans at the site, so also not related).

That John and Mrs John Kerr were on the voters' list in Whitehorse 1958-1968, him being a security officer at that point and then retired.

But again, the name is so common ...

However, with what seems to be his RCMP number from the grave, you might be able to find info about that person? since his grave shows a date of death more than 20 years ago ... although you would probably need a death certificate ..........
http://www.hss.gov.yk.ca/death.php

or as Kay says enquire generally from the RCMP about the name.

There was an RCMP Cst John Kerr killed on duty pre-1900, so there were very likely more than these two John Kerrs in the force.



for info about Mount Hope Catholic Cemetery in Toronto:

http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=639397&CScn=mt+hope&CScntry=10&

96% of graves have been photographed, and there is none for an infant Kerr.

This site may help??

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/genealogy-and-archival-research

OOh I have one more piece of information. An old family friend recollects that there used to be a photo somewhere of a man in uniform on a horse. They think it might have been a Mounties uniform. Does anyone know if it is possible to find out if this could have been my grandfather. I know his name and his address if this helps. Also could he was went off in duty around 1930?? . Maybe something happened to him. This might explain why my grandmother came home to Ireland on her own with a 3 month old baby :-(

Well after about 4 weeks I received a guarantor form in the post to be completed. Luckily my son's friend lives in Alberta and he is doing guarantor for me. I'm beginning to think this certificate will never come
:-(

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D,

Thanks JoonieCloonie, that makes perfect sense actually. Well, we will wait with baited breath.

Next thing on the cards might be a wee trip over to Canada to see dad's birth place and maybe where my infant Uncle is buried.

Well now I just hope I'm guessing right :-D :-D :-D

But the reason for a guarantor for a person to get their own birth certificate is so that people can't get fake ID to use themself. Like, you can't apply for Jane Doe's birth certificate ... that you can then use to get the equivalent of a national health card (very valuable to non-residents in places like Canada and the UK with national health plans), and a passport (very valuable to criminals and terrorists) and a job ... and your house ...

The 100 year rule in Ontario (not just for the certificate itself but for the info it contains) is to protect privacy, the guarantor rule is to prevent identity fraud.

In England the privacy isn't really there because the index is public, and the smaller protection against identity theft is that if you apply for a birth certificate for someone under age 50, you have to supply all the gory details that aren't in the index, like exact date of birth, mother's full name, etc.

In Ontario you can't get a birth certificate for someone under age 100 unless you actually prove you are that person -- or -- prove that the person is deceased. It's an either/or, from what the site says, even though it doesn't seem 100% clear.

I don't know about Ireland ... but if it is like England with a 50-year rule, that actually complicates the situation a bit, to those of us in the know. You could possibly be a poser ... say somebody else (who knows all your personal details, or you are over 50) got your Irish birth certificate and your dad's death certificate and is pretending to be your father's daughter in order to get an birth certificate for an 85 year old person born in Ontario, so they can claim some kind of benefit in Canada!

All in all I think that is just me inventing problems to solve and I don't think that's going to come up :-D

... but if that is the case for Irish birth certificates and somebody there knows the Irish rules and this bizarre scenario occurs to them, well let us know if somebody is that clever !!

If they are, there is probably some sort of civil service award they should be nominated for ;-)