Find Ancestors

Whoops! Here is the link:

http://www.carrickmacrossparish.ie/

but Erin has found the correct parish. so here is the link for that:

http://www.killannyparish.ie/

Eringobragh

Thank you for your advice, most helpful.

My parents did indeed get married in an RC church in Edinburgh.

Looks like I've got some letter-writing to do!

Hello Potty,

Thank you for those links, they provide me with the contact details I need.

Gosh, you lovely folk are all so helpful! :-)

Caomhin...


This site has the info.relating to the ERI Records and what is held ....

http://archiveshub.ac.uk/data/gb239-lhb1.html?page=1

Eringobragh

Thank you for the link, most thoughtful of you. However, my mother was a nurse not at the REI but at the Royal Edinburgh Hospital, i.e. the mental hospital in Morningside. I have already been in touch with their archives office and they supplied me with a small amount of information about her from their staff records. They didn't have her d.o.b., unfortunately!

Thanks again.

Caomhin.....

Did your mother qualify as Registered Nurse or a Registered Mental Nurse....?

Eringobragh,

The simple answer is I don't know. Her profession is given as 'Mental Nurse' on her marriage cert. And in the REH staff record, she is simply described as a 'Nurse'. In neither case does the word 'Registered' appear. Still, it's possible she might have been. Is there an on-line archive?

Maybe something archived on this site??

https://www.rcn.org.uk/

Also see this re nursing records to go on Ancestry:

https://www.rcn.org.uk/library/services/family-history


Held at National Records of Scotland:

General Nursing Council for Scotland (GNC)
Council and committee minutes and annual reports, 1920-83 (GNC1-3); registers of nurses and health visitors, 1921-83 (GNC12, GNC14).

http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/scottish-government-records-after-1707

Caomhin..

I am led to believe by what was on the MC she would have been a Registered Nurse/ Mental Nurse. Had she been a Student or an Auxiliary Nurse then it would have stated that....unlike today the use of the title Nurse was only afforded to those who were Registered Nurses...You could train to be a RMN independently of a Registered Nurse in the General Nursing field or you could do your General Nurse Training then train as a RMN after that thus having a dual qualification.
Either way she would have been on the General/Mental Nurse Register for Scotland. Link above from ArgyllGran.

Eringobragh & ArgyllGran

Thank you for those suggestions and links. I've now signed up to Ancestry and done a search on nurses in Scotland, but no luck there, alas. Thanks for the idea, anyway.

I contacted Killanny Parish Church by email and got a response. They've checked the register and have identified the baptism of Brigid Murray, daughter of Margaret Murray, in 1908 but no father's name listed. They also found the marriage records for Hugh Kerr (Annahean) and Margaret Murray (Leege) in 1911. So that seems to be positive confirmation that Brigid Murray/Carr/Kerr was their daughter, which is very good news. I've asked if they will send me photocopies of these records, but am awaiting a further response.

I've also emailed the RC church in Edinburgh where my parents got married, but have had no response at all, yet.

So, that's significant progress, but I still lack irrefutable documented confirmation that my grown-up mother really was that little girl born in 1908.

Onwards, ever upwards! :-)

That link I posted said,

"From August 2016 the RCN is making key nursing registers available via Ancestry.com. "

Possibly it hasn't happened yet.

Or possibly they're not including Scottish registers in that.

Yes, it has happened, ArgyllGran, and they have included the Scottish register. But there's no sign of Bridget!

Caomhin/ArgllGran. The records on Ancestry only cover from 1945....The General Nursing Council Register for Scotland as per below.



GNC
 Scotland
 Register
 
  1. National
 Records
 Scotland:
 Full
 run
 (1921-­-1983)
 Note:
 Access
 restricted
 until
 75
 years
 after
  the
 date
 created
 
I am pleased you heard back from Killany re the Baptism I would be inclined to check on Hugh and Patrick's Baptism as well....If one presumes Margaret wasn't wed when she had Bridget then I cant see her being unwed if Patrick and Hugh were hers...The PP would be rather "unhappy" to say the least..!!

Eringobragh,

Thanks. I've rechecked the Ancestry site and it says the Scotland nursing records cover 1921-1945, which should include my mother's dates. However, there is also an RCN guidance document which says that it was voluntary to join the register (they had to pay a fee) until 1943.

Good idea re Hugh & Patrick. I'll ask. I'm still waiting for Hugh & Margaret's marriage cert. and hoping that it might reveal something about the mysterious name of McCarthy which appears as mother's maiden surname on my mother's marriage cert. One possibility is that Margaret Murray really did have MS McCarthy and that she first married someone called Murray, who died after Bridget was born. I haven't found any evidence for that, though. Another problem with that idea is that, on Bridget's civil birth cert., under 'Mother's name' there is the printed word 'formerly' which has been scored out.

Hello again, another update:

I've now received the marriage cert. for Hugh Kerr and Margaret Murray. Hugh's age is 35, his residence is Annahean and his father is Hugh Kerr, all of which matches the 1901 &1911 census data. Margaret's age is 42, her residence is Leege (again matching the 1911 census data) and her father's name is Laurence Murray. (No mother's names are given.) So they are definitely the same Hugh and Margaret as previously identified, which is excellent news.

I have found a Laurence (or Lawrence) Murray in the 1901& 1911 census data. He lived in a place called Moylough, Drumboory, i.e. in the same area as Hugh & Margaret. The data conflict with respect to age and ability to read & write but they must the same man. He is described as 'single' and 'not married'. In 1901 his brother and sister are living with him but in 1911 he only has a servant. Presumably he is the brother of the Patrick Murray who appears as Margaret's uncle in the 1911 census.

I have heard from the RC church in Edinburgh where my parents got married. Unfortunately their marriage register makes no mention of place or date of birth. It also repeats 'McCarthy' as being my grandmother's MS. So I still can't positively match my mother with the evidence uncovered so far. I don't really know what to do next - apart from give up, of course!

Hello all,

Another update. I've now obtained a copy of my mother's entry in the 1939 Register. The excellent news is that her d.o.b. (5 July 1908) matches exactly that of the Bridget Kerr whose birth cert. I found.

Surely they must be the same persons? But the remaining oddity is that the Irish records give Bridget's mother's m.s. as Murray, and the Scottish records say it was McCarthy. Any further thoughts as to why this discrepancy exists?

No idea, I'm afraid, unless the suggestion earlier in the thread, that maybe Bridget didn't know her mother's ms, is correct.

Or - frantically clutching at straws -
is it possible that Laurence Murray and Margaret's mother weren't married (he's listed as single or unmarried in the censuses), and that her mother was a McCarthy ??
So Margaret might have been technically McCarthy, but took her father's name??
Impossible to prove, of course.

Maybe Margaret's death? (Don't think this has been posted before.)

Margaret Kerr
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958
Name: Margaret Kerr
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1952
Death Age: 83
Registration district: Carrickmacross
Volume: 2
Page: 171
FHL Film Number: 257854

And then there's the question of Margaret Floody.

Is she the same person?
The whole family seem very free with their changeable surnames!

Hello ArgyllGran,

Thank you for your reply and for taking the time to offer further thoughts.

Bridget misremembering her mother's m.s. would be feasible, but only if she didn't have in her possession her own civil records birth cert. or baptismal cert. (which I suppose is quite possible). An alternative theory is that her parents misinformed her with a view to averting the social stigma of illegitimacy. A bit far-fetched?

I've searched for a marriage between a Laurence Murray and a McCarthy with a null result, so your theory could well be right. But, as you say, impossible to prove.

The associated curiosity is that Bridget's middle names are given in her Scottish records (but not the Irish b.c.) as Noreen McCarthy. I've tried searching with this name but haven't found a plausible candidate for someone who might have been a relative of hers.

Thanks for the further search re Margaret's death - I had already come across that one.

As to Margaret Floody - a complete mystery! Despite lots of searching, I've come up with nothing to identify who she might be.

Thanks again, much appreciated.