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Thanks for the link. Will check it out. Are we related? :-D I can't seem to find a marriage for George and Mary. This site is annoying in that your have to pay per view before you even really know if its the right record whereas Ancestry mentions the wires name.

PS the link on that page to the parish registers is dead. Has it changed its address?
The link for the dvd is also dead.

I have lightermen in my family so always interesting to find others. the occupation generally runs down the family,

You might find this site re lightermen/watermen of interest
http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html

The whites were definitely lightmen as James son of james robert foxwell had the business with george pearce white in the london gazette article. So that must be the sone george of george and mary as he was 2 years older than james.

There is a death record for Mary ann bartholomew white in st olave southwark in 1877 aged 47.

George White
in the 1851 England Census

Name: George White
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary White
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: St James
ED, institution, or vessel: 07
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 74
Piece: 1560
Folio: 208
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
George White 48
Mary White 48
Ann White 19
Elizabeth White 16
Jacob White 14
Sarah White 10
Mary Foxwell 22 <<<
George White 2
James Foxwell 3 Mo <<<<<
Thomas Hughes 40

and 1841

Information
Report issue
Name: George White
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: St James
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1048
Book: 3
Folio: 9
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
George White 38 ( waterman)
Mary White 38
Mary Ann White 13 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
George White 10
Elizabeth White 8
Jacob White 5
Mary Pope 41
John Pope 14
George Lewis 45
Harriet Lewis 38
Rebecca Lewis 2
Ann White 10

I think you might find the Mary bartholomew you were looking at in 1841 is a different person?

Bartholomew looks to be a middle name, this may be the marriage to George White ( unfortunately does not show occupation)

Name: George White
Spouse: Mary Bartholomew Bartlett
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 Sep 1824
Parish: St Giles, Camberwell
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Register

Mary Ann's baptism

Name: Mary Ann White
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 May 1829
Father's name: George White
Mother's name: Mary Bartholemew White
Parish or Poor Law Union: Rotherhithe St Mary
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

ah well when i did it I was able to see those records so maybe they have changed it since.

I did join ancestry for a 14 day trial apparently but the trial doesnt let you see anything at all. Every time I click on a search result it tells me I have to sign up.

The 1841 census shows Mary ann BW c1830 living with what appears to be grandparents - James and Mary Bartholomew and parents William and Sarah Bartholomew. Im interested to know where George White come in? If the marriage is 1850 then perhaps William bartholomew dies between 41 and 50 and the mother remarries?

backtomyroots, I would suggest if you can that you take a free trial at Ancestry ( remember to cancel before the end so you don't get charged) as Ancestry has the actual images of baptisms, marriages for London (LMA records) which might help save you some money on certs. eg the image for marriage of j Foxwell to Mary ann White can be viewed.

James Foxwell
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: James Foxwell (occ' porter
Spouse: Mary Ann Bartholomew White
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 12 May 1850
Parish: St Mary, Newington
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: George Foxwell (occ carman)
Spouse Father: George White ( occ Waterman)
Register Type: Parish Register

backtomyroots.. order from the GRO £9.95, don't ever buy certs through a 3rd party like Anc' or GR etc.

I wonder if you could shorten that link to family search please? it's stretched the page as long links do .

Thanks Shirley, I already saw those indexes but they dont reveal the parents unfortunately and Im not going to spend 22 pounds for a certificate at this point.

His birth


Name: Charles E Foxwell
Registration Year: 1866
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Bermondsey
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 83

And death
Charles Enoch Foxwell
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Registration Year: 1870
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 3
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 195

For info St Olave is a registration district

This is a good site for info

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/

ST OLAVE SOUTHWARK REGISTRATION DISTRICT

Registration County : London.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.1.1902 (to become part of St. Olave (Bermondsey) registration district).
Sub-districts : Bermondsey, Leather Market, St. James Bermondsey, St. John Horsleydown, St. Mary Magdalene, St. Olave Southwark, Rotherhithe.
GRO volumes : IV (1837-51), 1d (1852-1901).
Registers currently held at : Southwark.
Table 1: List of Places in St. Olave Southwark Registration District

Well if you get the death cert it should say son of and the fathers name

Sometimes you need certs to cross check info ,not everything' is cut and dried on census and bmds

I found a Charles Enoch Foxwell born 1867 and died 1870 at 3 years old in St Olave Bermondsey. I can't seem to find any info about the parents. Anyone have any idea how I can find out if this is an ancestor?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JNL-Y3Z

Thanks for all the amazingly interesting info. I found a marriage between Mary Ann bartholomew white and James robert foxwell in 1850. I think this is James and Roberts father. The marriage is in newington, close to southwark where his death is registered. There was a lot of nepotism happening lol

Can someone please tell me is St Olave a place or a church because it keeps coming up.

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AJames~%20%2Bsurname%3AFoxwell~%20%2Bbirth_place%3ALondon~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1821-1822~%20%2Bmarriage_place%3Alondon~%20%2Bmarriage_year%3A1835-1850~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland

WHITE AND FOXWELL

CRICKET

Built 1878 by John Stewart and Son, Blackwall. Iron screw tug. 11GRT 2NRT. 40.6'x9.2'x5.2'. 6nhp 2cyl compound steam engine by Smith Bros, Limehouse. [Manufactured 1897] ON 112678.

1878 Delivered to unknown owner. [Unregistered vessel]. 1900 First registered London. 3-1900 Owner Nicholas C Dixon, Rotherhithe, London. 6-1900 Sold to George Pearce White, barge owner, 36 Plough Rd., Rotherhithe. 7-1900 Owners G P White and James Foxwell, Deptford, barge owners. 10-1918 Sold to J Foxwell and William Downing, Rotherhithe. 1924 [by] Managing owner James Foxwell, 36 Plough Rd., Rotherhithe. 1926 Same owner. 3-1-1929[by] Scrapped.

http://thamestugs.co.uk/WALKER---WOODS.php

That would probably be James, Robert's older brother , here visiting George White in 1851 with mother Mary,

Back to results

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Salisbury Street, Bermondsey, Surrey, England


George White Head Married Male 48 1803 Thames Policeman Bermondsey, Surrey, England T
Mary White Wife Married Female 48 1803 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Ann White Daughter Unmarried Female 19 1832 Glover Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Elizabeth White Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1835 Glover Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Jacob White Son - Male 14 1837 Scholar Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Sarah White Daughter - Female 10 1841 Scholar Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Mary Foxwell Visitor Married Female 22 1829 Glover Bermondsey, Surrey, England <<<<<<<
George White Visitor - Male 2 1849 Scholar Bermondsey, Surrey, England Transcription
James Foxwell Visitor - Male 0 1851 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England <<<<<<<<

later census for James
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2, St Helena Road, Rotherhithe, St Olave Southwark, London, England



James Foxwell Head Married Male 30 1851 Lighterman Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Matilda A Foxwell Wife Married Female 32 1849 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
James R Foxwell Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Mary Ann E Foxwell Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Robert P Foxwell Son Single Male 5 1876 Scholar Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Mitilda A Foxwell Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Charles R Foxwell Son Single Male 0 1881 - Rotherhithe, Surrey, England

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
27, Union Road Prospect Place, St Mary Rotherhithe, Rotherhithe, London, England


James Foxwell Head Married Male 40 1821 Potatoe Dealer Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Mary Ann Foxwell Wife Married Female 31 1830 Glove Maker Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Robert Foxwell Son - Male 7 1854 Scholar Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Mary Ann Foxwell Daughter - Female 5 1856 Scholar Covent Garden, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Foxwell Daughter - Female 3 1858 Scholar Islington, Middlesex, England
Edwin Cable Boarder Unmarried Male 25 1836 Painter Rotherhithe, Surrey, England

this is quite interesting: the apprenticeship for Robert Foxwell was to George Pearce White and there is this item in the gazette ( on left of page)
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30947/page/11998/data.pdf

Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010 Transcription

First name(s) ALFRED GEORGE
Last name Foxwell
Birth year -
Master's first name(s) Robert
Master's last name Foxwell
Bound year 1909
Bound day 28
Bound month Oct
Place DEPTFORD
Date free 1919 Jun 24
Where from notes Deptford
Source Binding Records 1692-1949
Record set Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010
Category Education & work
Subcategory Occupations
Collections from Great Britain

Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010 Transcription
Print transcription
First name(s) ALFRED GEORGE
Last name Foxwell
Birth year 1892
Birth day 2
Birth month Dec
Master's first name(s) -
Master's last name -
Bound year 1909
Bound day 28
Bound month Oct
Place NORTH DEPTFORD
Date free -
Where from notes -
Source Binding Records 1692-1949
Record set Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010
Category Education & work
Subcategory Occupations
Collections from Great Britain