Find Ancestors

Returning to the 1795 death in Paisley for Jean Hervie .
Can't be daughter Jean/Jane b 1788 in Glasgow as she fits the description from 1851 census in Brewood, Stafffs ( posted above)

Sisters, Mary ( Mrs Marshall), Janet ( unmarried) and Jane ( unmarried) now seem to be accounted for on the various census returns in England.

Nicola,
having re read your comments re James Hervie Snr, I think I see where you are coming from.
James married Jean Winning in Glasgow then Isabella Kibble in Paisley but, was he originally from Stirlingshire?
It is possible.
If he and Jean Winning adhered to the traditional naming patterns, it suggests that his parents were called James and Christian ( Christina)
Jean's parents would be William and Elizabeth as Rootgatherer suggested.

Dea....You need to go back to 2008 and onward to discover what has been found in Nicola's tree !!! ...Below is from 2011

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1262882

I know Erin, I have been following them too.

They are all SO interesting and she is SO lucky to have been left all that wonderful information - I really do envy her (although I don't envy all the work it will take to bring all that info together, I dont think it will be completed in 'one' lifetime ;-) )

What I do find fascinating is that ALL her relatives have had such interesting and mysterious lives and in so many diverse directions.

Dea Xxx

When I was looking this morning, I spotted 2 things but, I can't decide if it's relevant or even connected

1) Marriage of Sarah Hervey to James Kibble 1839, Manchester
( found Sarah Listed as an executor to a Will and she is definitely connected to the early Hervey/ Winning/ Kibble family)

2) Marriage of James Hervey Esq of MANCHESTER to Elizabeth Kibble of Glasgow.
They married in Glasgow in 1849.
Marriage announcement found in Glasgow newspaper. Elizabeth Kibble was the daughter of James Kibble, Glasgow.

This means that there are 3 different instances where names Hervey and Kibble intermarried.
ALL had links to Manchester but it may explain further people/descendants named Hervey with middle name Kibble and vice versa

County Midlothian
Place Edinburgh
Church name The Parish Church
Register type Unspecified
Marriage date 31 Jul 1748
Groom forename William
Groom surname WINNING
Groom occupation Servant to Mr Matthew STEWART,Professor of Mathematics in the College of Edinburgh,in S.S.E Parish
Bride forename Elizabeth
Bride surname WINNING
Bride father forename Tobias
Bride father surname WINNING
Bride father occupation Staymaker in Glasgow,now in N.W Parish

(would above relate anywhere?, things ' Winning'!)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Chris :)

Chris,
I have quite a few people called Winning in my tree.
Initially they had no connection to each other as they were spouses to different people, from completely different areas from my ancestry
I looked more closely at the individuals and found that a number of them were definitely descendants of the SAME Winning families.

Their origins were Barony/ Tollcross/Old Monkland.

Re Sarah Hervey to James Kibble in 1839:

Sarah was of Heath Field, Lloyd St., Moss Lane, Manchester

James was of Park ? Place, in the City of Glasgow, North Britain !!.

Both 21 or over.

Dea x

Dea ,
That's the same address that's listed for the father of Elizabeth Kibble who married James Hervey in Glasgow 1849

Golly!
I think I found them on census returns in Lancs.
James was born circa 1813 in... Mauritius

Greenock Advertiser 4 Dec 1849

At Park Place, Paisley Road, Glasgow.
On the 27th ultimo, by the Rev James FS Gordon.
James Hervey esq Manchester, to Elizabeth, 2nd daughter of James Kibble Esq, Glasgow.

Therefore, James Kibble husband of Sarah Hervey and Elizabeth Kibble wife of James Hervey would be siblings?

Oooo - I do hope she hasn't got all this already !! :-D

Have to go and get the grandchildren from school - see you later.....

Dea x

1851: Park Place, Paisley Road, Glasgow
Name Age
James Kibble 73 Metal Merchant b PAISLEY
Mary Kibble 34 dau b Rothesay, Isle of Bute
John Kibble 32 son B Glasgow
Sarah Kibble 26 Dau B Glasgow
Jane W Parlane 33
Mary Carmichael 23

It shows that the family I located in Lancs will be James Hervey ( b Mauritius) and Elizabeth Kibble.
Elizabeth's place of birth is showing as Isle of Bute

It also places the Kibble family right back to the start..
James iKbble was born in Paisley circa 1778
Was he the brother of Isabella Kibble who married James Hervey?
Sure looks like it.

James Kibble
Gender Male
Christening Place LOW CHURCH, PAISLEY, RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 31 Oct 1777
Birthplace Low Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland
Father's Name Thomas Kibble
Mother's Name Sarah Martin
Nicola seems to know about the Kibble roots

So much to follow up on:
Yes, Robert Kibble Hervey is my GGGrandfather - got lots and lots about him including photos and memorabilia [his signet ring!]. He was a Barrister in London. His younger sister is the Isabel Matley Hervey mentioned above - she is the author of the wonderful Indian Journal which I am busy transcribing. And another sister mentioned above Violet Milroy Hervey is, by complete coincidence, buried 30 minutes from where I live! With a very informative headstone and complete set of engraved kerbs. The last [surviving] sister Rosamond Hervey married a fascinating chap when they were both in their 50's; he was a Colonel in the Indian Army [HENRY BATHURST HANNA] and left an amazing written account of one of the mounted charges he was involved in [and which nearly killed him]. A transcription of that account is lodged with the British Library if anyone is interested. And his complete art collection of Indian and Asian art is at the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC. Like I have any spare time with all of this!

And, just to reassure you all, I DO have an Ag Lab in my ancestry ;-) ;-) - he was my GGGrandfather on the other side of my family and was also the Parish Clerk for 38 years, as it very helpfully told me at the side of his Burial Record!! So I guess that he was an 'educated' Ag Lab ..................

The little Jane Hamilton Hervey is correct.

The Marshall/Mauritius connection is correct. Emily Marshall is mentioned by my GGGAunt in her diary of 1884 - how very helpful of her!

The Jane and Janet Hervey sisters living in Brewood are correct. Again, and helpfully, they are mentioned in my GGGrandfather's will as his sisters.

Thomas Kibble Hervey was the famous [ at the time ] Victorian romantic poet. We have letters from and to him to chaps like Wordsworth, etc! And his books. He is buried in Highgate Cemetery but sadly without a headstone as it seems he died penniless. But, again, my GGGrandfather [his half brother] made a legacy to TKH's only child in his will - nice.

Love the Atlas Assurance Co information - thank you.

Do the Scottish birth records show the mmn for James Hervie junior?

The name Jean Winning as James Hervie junior's first wife is only a little curious, in that this is a name that is completely missing off all of the huge amount of information that I have. Again, do the Scottish birth records show mmn for any of the children of James Hervie junior? Hope I haven't missed any of the posts here; it's hard to keep scrolling up and down and I can't change pages either!!

I need to sign off a little now and may not get back to all of this mountain of help that you've all given until later this evening/tomorrow.
:-)

Yes Nicola, all the Hervie children that I posted earlier show parents as:
James Hervie ( Variant surnames) and Jean Winning.
Those are from Family Search but the original OPR entries can be found on Scotlands People


Name James Harvie
Gender Male
Birth Date 10 Feb 1781
Birthplace GLASGOW,LANARK,SCOTLAND
Father's Name James Harvie
Mother's Name Jean Winning

Name Elizabeth Harvie
Gender Female
Birth Date 10 Sep 1782
Birthplace GLASGOW,LANARK,SCOTLAND
Father's Name James Harvie
Mother's Name Jean Winning


Name Christian Harvie
Gender Female
Birth Date 21 Jun 1784
Birthplace GLASGOW,LANARK,SCOTLAND
Father's Name James Harvie
Mother's Name Jean Winning

William Hervey
Gender Male
Birth Date 14 Jul 1785
Birthplace GLASGOW,LANARK,SCOTLAND
Father's Name James Hervey
Mother's Name Jean Winning

Name Jean Hervey
Gender Female
Birth Date 25 Apr 1788
Birthplace , GLASGOW, LANARK, SCOTLAND
Father's Name James Hervey
Mother's Name Jean Winning

Name Mary Hervey
Gender Female
Birth Date 24 Jul 1790
Birthplace , GLASGOW, LANARK, SCOTLAND
Father's Name James Hervey
Mother's Name Jean Winning

Name Robert Hervie
Gender Male
Christening Date 03 Apr 1792
Christening Place , ABBEY (PAISLEY), RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 25 Mar 1792
Father's Name James Hervie
Mother's Name Jean Winning

Name Janet Harvey
Gender Female
Christening Date 22 Mar 1793
Christening Place , ABBEY (PAISLEY), RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 12 Mar 1793
Father's Name James Harvey
Mother's Name Jean Winning

Name Alexander Hervie
Gender Male
Christening Date 24 Apr 1794
Christening Place , ABBEY (PAISLEY), RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 23 Apr 1794
Father's Name James Hervie
Mother's Name Jean Winning


William Harvie
Gender Male
Christening Date 16 Sep 1795
Christening Place , ABBEY (PAISLEY), RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 14 Sep 1795
Father's Name James Harvie
Mother's Name Jean Winning

Name William Harvie
Gender Male
Christening Date 16 Sep 1795
Christening Place , ABBEY (PAISLEY), RENFREW, SCOTLAND
Birth Date 14 Sep 1795
Father's Name James Harvie
Mother's Name Jean Winning


(Added: Alexander who I missed before)

You may have missed the relevant posts Nicola but, your family seems to have at least 2 marriages between cousins.( Kibble and Hervey)
Descendants of James Hervie with Jean Winning and/or Isabella Kibble married the children of Isabella's Kibble's own brother, James Kibble

(ah!, thankyou for that GL, not much knowledge of Scots. areas me, lol, will leave that to you and rg, think I'm in a Hervey/Hervie free zone here in Cambs., well, except for the University bit that is, lol)

Phew!...

Chris :)

I have been pondering James Hervey b circa 1813 in Mauritius who married Elizabeth Kibble in Glasgow 1849.

If he was born in Mauritius, who was his father?
In Feb 1837, a man named James Kibble in Mauritius received £58 11s 4d in compensation for two slaves.
Father or son? Or not connected?

.https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/claim/view/2120005019

Nicola,
Did you find this?
I forgot to add it yesterday

1841: Ashfield House, Neston, Cheshire
This is a school and although the ages are a bit out, it sure looks like the 3 sisters, Christina, Jane and Janet Hervey.
Emily Marshall is here too
All others are pupils or servants.

Christina Hervey 45 School Mistress Single b Scotland ( age would be 57)
Jane Hervey 40 School Mistress Single B Scotland ( would be 53))
Jane Hervey 35 School MistressB Scotland ( would be Janet age 48)
*****Emily Marshall 15 Pupil b Foreign Parts***
Mary Bimes 15
Dora Hall 15
Elizabeth Hodgson 15
Elizabeth Woodall 14
Mary Pilling 14
Caroline Salusbwy 13
Ann Davies 30
Elizabeth Speed 30

This saga goes on and on and on.....Found this by sheer chance.....

Is this the " Mary" daughter of James listed by Glasgow Lass 10 May 14.51.


From the Westmeath Journal......

WMT J 1824 10 28 NPM MARSHALL Maj On the 16th of June last, at the Mauritius, Major Marshall of the 82nd Regiment, to Mary, daughter of James Hervey, Esq. of Ardwick Green, Manchester.

Name Mary Marshall
County Gloucestershire
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place Kingsholm St Catherine, Gloucestershire, England
Ecclesiastical Parish St Mark
Registration District Gloucester
Residence Note Tewkesbury Road
Gender Female
Age 70
Marital Status Widow
Occupation ...
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1791
Birthplace Scotland
Page Number 9
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 1765 / 132
Affiliate Record Type Household



Household

Role

Gender

Age

Birthplace

Mary Marshall Head F 70 Scotland
Emily Marshall Daughter F 34 ...,
Lousia Marshall Daughter F 25 ...,
Janet Kerney Sister F 66 Scotland (Should be Hervey)
Emma Travell Servant F 22 ..., Gloucestershire

Name Mary Marshall
Event Type Census
Event Date 1871
Event Place Whistones, Worcestershire, England
Enumeration District 1
Gender Female
Age 80
Marital Status Widowed
Occupation Lieut. Cols. Widow
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1791
Birthplace Glasgow, Scotland
Entry Number 10
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/3049/0042



Household

Role

Gender

Age

Birthplace

Mary Marshall Head F 80 Glasgow, Scotland
Elizabeth E Marshall Daughter F 46 Mauritius
George R J Marshall Son M 44 Mauritius *** Late Capt.)
William F T Marshall Son M 41 Manuritius *** Major A P) No idea what A P is
Louisa J Marshall Daughter F 38 Manuritius
Janet H Marshall Sister F 78 Paisley, Scotland (?should be Hervey)
Emma E Lee Servant F 22 Old Hills, Worcestershire
Harriet Hitchman Servant F 19 Woodstock, Oxfordshire