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Thanks for the update Eunice - do let us know if you hear anything further.

Dea x

UPDATE! For those who were interested … I now have his death cert, he WAS in the asylum , but listed simply as a soldier, and died …….. of Tb. I have applied for any health records I can have, but am not too hopeful, but if I get anything, I will let you know Dea x

Thanks Chris,

At least we now know that it wasn't Annie's Moses who died in the first world war.

I thin, in fact, that he may have ended up in Doncaster and died there in 1962.

The birth date on here matches the one on his baptism record:

1939:
Fairclough Household (3 People) 27 Doncaster Road , Doncaster R.D., Yorkshire (West Riding), England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Moses Yates 02 Jan 1885 Colliery Hewer Unemployed
Robert Fairclough 01 Oct ? Old Age Pensioner
Charles King 30 Oct 1875 Colliery Hewer Unemployed Pae


Moses Yates
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Moses Yates
Birth Date: abt 1885
Date of Registration: Sep 1962
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Doncaster
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2b
Page: 338

Dea x

What I should have pointed out was that Peter's mother Martha dies when he was a small boy, and by the time of the 1911 census when he was 21, he was living with Edward -aged28, Moses aged 26 and Martha, his other sister aged 21.

Chris, an interesting piece above, thank you, but I don't think this is the same Moses, brother to Peter? Peter's parents were Martha and Peter. his siblings were Edward, Moses, Ellen and one of the girl, but not the names you mention above.
I have sent off for Peter's death cert, and I have also had a receipt of email enquiry from Wakefield Archives, re my application to access any records if possible. I have also ordered a book "Voices from the Asylum" which is a history of the High Royds Hospital and Mental institution where Peter was sent to and died. Grim racing, Im sure, if you Google the book you will get some background as to what is was like :-(
I will let everyone know the outcome of this, but obviously it may be several weeks.

(if you mean the Moses below?, from image, Mother Ellen, Father Samuel)

Chris :)


All UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 (Ancestry)

Moses Yates 1 Dec 1915 Gallipoli Lancashire Fus 13/13378

(https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#soldiers)


https://gm1914.wordpress.com/2015/05/14/moses-yates-a-boy-soldier-from-tyldesley/

(big article on him above, with Photo)


(1901 address, 50 Sale Lane, Tyldesley, Lancs.)


Marriages Dec 1897 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
Elliott Ellen Jane Leigh 8c 341
YATES Samuel Leigh 8c 341


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1898

YATES Moses Atherton Wigan & Leigh (Mother Maiden Name) ELLIOTT ATH/80/493

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1871
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
YATES Moses MAKIN Sarah Leigh Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROL/23/55


1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZPD-6ZBQ
[rg10/3916/128/2]
Event Place Tyldesley Cum Shakerley, Lancashire, England
Entry Number 23
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/3916/0256
Image Number 00260
Moses Yates Head M 42 Tyldesley, Lancashire [Collier]
Sarah Yates Wife F 33 Tyldesley, Lancashire

1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZPD-6Z4
[rg10/3916/129/3]
Entry Number 2
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/3916/0257
Image Number 00261
John Yates Son M 19 Tyldesley, Lancashire
Peter Yates Son M 17 Tyldesley, Lancashire
Alice Ann Yates Daughter F 15 Tyldesley, Lancashire
Mary Yates Daughter F 13 Tyldesley, Lancashire
Elizabeth Yates Daughter F 12 Tyldesley, Lancashire
Moses Yates Son M 6 Tyldesley, Lancashire
Ellen Yates Daughter F 4 Tyldesley, Lancashire

FS/FMP treat these as 2 h/h's, but Ancestry does not.
From the relationships we can see Ancestry is correct.
(They are on adjacent pages, as you can see from the ancilliary info I've given)



Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1880
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
YATES Peter MATHER Martha Leigh Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROL/32/169


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1880q4 YATES Alice Ann Atherton Wigan & Leigh MATHER ATH/44/133
1883q2 YATES Edward Atherton Wigan & Leigh MATHER ATH/48/406
1885q1 YATES Moses Atherton Wigan & Leigh MATHER ATH/52/28
1887q3 YATES Ellen Atherton Wigan & Leigh MATHER ATH/56/495
1889q4 YATES Peter Atherton Wigan & Leigh MATHER ATH/61/233
1891q4 YATES Martha Atherton Wigan & Leigh MATHER ATH/66/138


1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXF-T9BJ

1891 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:74CP-FPZ
Moses Yates Head M 66 Lancashire, England
Sarah Yates Wife F 52 Lancashire, England

Lancashire Death indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Age or Year of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
1891q3 YATES Sarah 53 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/42/18
1896q2 YATES Moses 71 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/47/420

Lancashire Death indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Age or Year of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
1896q2 MATHER Edward 65 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/47/380
1904q3 MATHER Betty 71 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/58/5

1891 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:744G-6MM
Registration Number RG11 Piece/Folio 3809/27 Page Number 48
Edward Mathew Head M 61 Lancashire, England
Betty Mathew Wife F 58 Lancashire, England
Peter Yates Son In Law M 37 Lancashire, England
Martha Yates Wife F 31 Lancashire, England
Alice A Yates Daughter F 10 Atherton, Lancashire, England
Edward Yates Son M 8 Lancashire, England
Moses Yates Son M 6 Lancashire, England
Helen Yates Daughter F 3 Lancashire, England
Peter Yates Son M 1 Lancashire, England

1901 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9VC-2XY
[rg13/3596/111/32]
Peter Yates Head M 47 Tyldesley, Lancashire
Alice Ann Yates Daughter F 20 Atherton, Lancashire
Edward Yates Son M 18 Atherton, Lancashire
Moses Yates Son M 16 Atherton, Lancashire
Ellen Yates Daughter F 13 Atherton, Lancashire

1901 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9VC-2FM
[rg13/3596/112/33]
Peter Yates Son M 11 Atherton, Lancashire
Betty Mather Mother-In-Law F 69 Westhoughton, Lancashire
Martha Yates Daughter F 9 Atherton, Lancashire

Again FS has gotten confused by a page boundary, and split a single h/h in two.

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1891q4
Surname Forename(s) Age or Year of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
YATES Martha 31 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/42/302

Using http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ Dea expanded on Greyghost's post by giving d.o.b. In fact all his sibs were baptized at that same church.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/377682/YATES,%20P
YATES, P
Rank: Private
Service No: 17471
Date of Death: 09/05/1921
Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Depot.
Grave Reference: C.E. 72.
Cemetery: ATHERTON CEMETERY
[OS ref SD668028]

Deaths Jun 1921 (>99%)
Yates Peter 32 Wharfedale 9a 167

1km S of Menston - http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/32385

1849 map of Atherton/Chowbent
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Atherton/images/ATHERTON1849.jpg

===================================




Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1852
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MATHER Edward ABBOT Betty Bolton, St Peter Bolton 18/15/110

Using http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 23 Feb 1852 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Edward Mather - (X), Full Labourer Bachelor of Blackrod
Betty Abbot - Minor Spinster of Blackrod
Groom's Father: Thomas Mather, Farmer
Bride's Father: Samuel Abbot, Farmer
Witness: William Gregory; James Liptrot
Married by Banns by: J. Slade Vicar
Register: Marriages 1851 - 1852, Page 55, Entry 110
Source: Microfilm of register at Manchester Library

To be sure I'm looking at the correct censuses, I looked up the births for Peter and his parents, and the 3 sets of sibs.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1852 MATHER Martha Hindley Wigan & Leigh ABBOTT HNDL/13/154
1867 MATHER James Westhoughton Bolton ABBOT WH/11/72
1870 MATHER Samuel Atherton Wigan & Leigh ABBATT ATH/27/461

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1851
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
YATES Moses GRUNDY Alice Bolton, St Mary the Virgin, Deane Parish Church Bolton 24/6/254

Marriage: 21 Apr 1851 St Mary the Virgin, Deane, Lancs.
Moses Yates - (X), 25, Collier, Bachelor, Little Hulton
Alice Grundy - (X), 23, Spinster, Little Hulton
Groom's Father: John Yates, Collier
Bride's Father: Peter Grundy, Weaver
Witness: Peter Grundy, (X); Peter Greenhalgh
Married by Banns by: Edw. W. Saul Curate
Register: Marriages 1849 - 1852, Page 127, Entry 254
Source: Microfilm held by Manchester Central Library



Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1851q3 YATES John Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/10/98
1852[53q1] YATES Alice Ann Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/11/118
1854q1 YATES Peter Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/12/45
1855q4 YATES Alice Ann Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/13/236
1857q3 YATES Mary Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/14/385
1858q4 YATES Elizabeth Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/15/488
1860q3 YATES William Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/17/259
1863q1 YATES Thomas Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/19/477 [GRO ref is vol 8c p 211, misindexed as 9c]
1864q3 YATES Moses Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/21/321
1866q1 YATES Ellen Atherton Wigan & Leigh GRUNDY ATH/23/99


Lancashire Death indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Age or Year of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
1854q4 YATES Alice Ann 1 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/9/135
1862q3 YATES William 1 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/14/138
1866q1 YATES Thomas 3 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/17/98
1867q4 YATES Alice 39 Atherton Wigan & Leigh ATH/18/160

Just a thought Eunice - you may be asked for Peter's date of birth somewhere along the line so you might need this:

Baptism: 1 Dec 1889 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Peter Yates - Son of Peter Yates & Martha
Born: 13 Sep 1889 ***
Abode: 289 Bag Lane
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: W. Nuttall, Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1884 - 1899, Page 87, Entry 695
Source: LDS Film 1885669

Dea x

damn. posted too soon. So now I am looking to see if eldest brother Edward also went to war .. so sad, but as you say, so many like this. It was just a bloodbath.

Will do, but just now discovered his brother Moses was killed in 1915 at Gallipoli …...

I would be very interested to know what you find out Eunice.

This is a very sad story but there are so many others just like this.

Please do update this thread with anything you may discover.

Dea Xxx

Dea - I have followed up by emails the addresses you supplied. Thank you so much. I WILL get to the bottom of this, and He, will NOT be forgotten. The horror stories on line about High Royds are chilling; like so many institutions of that time, it is unimaginable to us today what the patients - or inmates as they referred to them as - were subjected to. There are thousands lying in an unmarked grave at High Royds apparently; at least Peter 'came home', but God knows what state he was in before.

Oh Dea!!! sorry - your posts have only come up after I posted mine!! Well that explains THAT mystery then!!! The poor lad …….

you know what? I am wondering if there has been a transcript error or other re the place of registration of death? Because the one Det cites is the only one around, and it says the 2nd quarter, so that also fits. I will look some more but think I will bite the bullet and just order that cert; after all, he could have moved out of the area, but chose to be buried at home in Atherton? I also wonder why, if he was 'wounded out' of WW1 in 1915 and never returned to the Front, how come he has a military style grave by 1921? Or maybe the family were too poor to pay for a gravestone so the Com. Graves Comm. stepped in?

The Asylum where he died was at Menston which comes under Wharfdale reg. district.

The records are held at West Yorkshire Archives but there is a 100 year rule on privacy so it is doubtful that they would let you have any info but you could try as he was discharged from the army in 1915 so that was when he was wounded and if he was put into the Asylum around that time it would be just over 100 years ago.

Many details have been transcribed on patients but unfortunately those on-line appear to only go up to 1908:

High Royds Hospital male patients 1888-1908

Below are links to a transcript of the Index to male patients at High Royds Hospital, Menston 1888-1908 (ref. C488/7/1/1/1). This index has been split alphabetically by the surname of each patient and arranged so that each table can be sorted by surname, forename, date of admission, Union to which they are chargeable, patient number and date of discharge.

If you find a record of a patient and you would like further information about what other documents we may hold relating to them, please contact WYAS: Wakefield by emailing [email protected] or calling 01924 305980 during office opening times.

Dea x

Sorry if someone has already posted this, but this is from the CWGC (Commonwealth War Graves Commission), it gives date of death.

Rank: Private
Service No:17471
Date of Death: 09/05/1921
Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment)

Depot.
Grave Reference: C.E. 72.
Cemetery: ATHERTON CEMETERY

The Wharfdale death looks to be the correct one as on the grave documents on CWGC site it seems to state that he died in the West Riding Asylum somewhere near Leeds.

He must have been transferred home for burial, poor man.

Dea x

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
289, Bag Lane, Atherton, Leigh, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Edward Mather Head Married Male 50 1831 Coal Miner Westhoughton, Lancashire, England
Betsy Mather Wife Married Female 48 1833 - Westhoughton, Lancashire, England
James Mather Son Single Male 13 1868 Drawer In Coal Mine Westhoughton, Lancashire, England
Samuel Mather Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Atherton, Lancashire, England
Peter Yates Son In Law Married Male 27 1854 Coal Miner Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Martha Yates Daughter Married Female 21 1860 Cotton Operative Westhoughton, Lancashire, England
Alice A Yates Grand Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Atherton, Lancashire, England

Possible only for Peter Snr - given his Father is a Moses and he has a son Moses

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Goose, Tyldesley, Leigh, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Moses Yates Head Married Male 36 1825 Coal Miner Worsley, Lancashire, England
Alice Yates Wife Married Female 33 1828 Household Work Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
John Yates Son Unmarried Male 9 1852 Scholar Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Peter Yates Son Unmarried Male 7 1854 Scholar Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Alice Ann Yates Daughter Unmarried Female 5 1856 Scholar Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Mary Yates Daughter Unmarried Female 4 1857 Scholar Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Yates Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1859 - Tyldesley, Lancashire, England
William Yates Son - Male 0 1861 - Tyldesley, Lancashire, England

*** Moses married to a Sarah by 1871