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I am at a loss too Eringobragh. In the opening post kellygirl states that George McDowell and his wife Annie Smith had a son Joseph Smith McDowell born Hollywood, Kerry. She also states that there is no evidence to prove that.

I think that you, Eringobragh, have proved that quite conclusively by finding those census records in Holywood, Down. That George (born Scotland) and his wife Annie do indeed have a son Joseph.

It looks to me that those children in Holywood, Down are the Grandchildren of George McDowell and Elizabeth Gray later Murdoch of Stranraer I.e. George the father of those children is their son!

Yes, Chris that is the same Annie Smith McDowell 1901/1911 Census.

I cannot figure out who kellygirl is after looking for.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/S/SmithAi.htm

(Miss Anne Smith wife of George McDowell; mother of William bpt. 1896 & Charles bpt. 1898 & Josph bpt. 1900 & Sarah Jane bpt. 1903 at 1st Holywood Presbyterian Church)

(relating?)

Chris :)

kellygirl.

If the George McDowell 1901 and 1911 Irish Census is your George then you can see he states he was born in Scotland as were 3 and possibly more of his and Annie Smith McDowell's children..(Annie was born in the Co Down).

I am not sure what you mean by...(Posted 18 April .11.45)

"Hi there and thank you, these are not the families i have from the census records as they have stayed in Stranraer since they arrived fro Ireland. There are two other families with conflicting trees, but with matching birth death and marriage certificates, am able to know who is in each family."

I received these replies from Heather.

I have listed George born in Stranraer but it is the family who are saying he was born in Ireland and i am trying to find out for certain. The Jemima is in this family and also listed in another family of George McDowall at a different address of 22 Fisher st and in Trade st. with different siblings, so they are related in some way. The family member i am in contact with said she has been to Fisher Street to see the family homesite.They both have the same wife Elizabeth Gray, so i am at a loss. I have two separate trees i have seen on ancestry and feel that person has not known of Elizabeth moving on to the murdoch family. please see attached cert. Thank you Heather


and

Yes this is my McDowal family. I have followed them with no hiccups then there seems to be two separate familes with Jemimas and both Elizabeth Gray in the entries


So this is the correct family.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Mill Hill Street, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland


George McDowall - Married Male 24 1837 Seaman Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elisabeth McDowall - Married Female 24 1837 - Leswalt, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elisabeth McDowall - - Female 4 1857 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
William McDowall - - Male 3 1858 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland



1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Hanover Square, 29, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland

Elizabeth McDowall Head Widow Female 33 1838 Dealer Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elizabeth McDowall Daughter - Female 14 1857 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
William McDowall Son - Male 12 1859 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
George McDowall Son - Male 10 1861 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
John McDowall Son - Male 8 1863 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Sarah McDowall Daughter - Female 6 1865 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Jemmima McDowall Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Charles McDowall Son - Male 2 1869 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland





1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

55, Sun Street, Leswalt, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland


David Murdoch Head Married Male 31 1850 Labourer Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Elizabeth Murdoch Wife Married Female 38 1843 Housewife Leswalt, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Wm McDowall Step Son Unmarried Male 20 1861 Labourer Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
George McDowall Step Son Unmarried Male 19 1862 Labourer Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Janet Murdoch Daughter - Female 6 1875 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Annie Murdoch Daughter - Female 4 1877 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Georgina McDowall Granddaughter - Female 4 1877 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Jemima McDowall Step Daughter Unmarried Female 14 1867 Servant Domestic Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland




1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Trade Street, Inch, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland


Eliabeth Murdoch Head Married Female 53 1838 Outdoor Worker Leswalt, Wigtownshire, Scotland
William McDowall Son Unmarried Male 28 1863 Labourer (Plasterers) Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Janet Murdoch Daughter - Female 16 1875 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Annie Murdoch Daughter - Female 14 1877 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
David Murdoch Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Georgina Caldwell Granddaughter - Female 14 1877 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Sarah McGeoch Granddaughter - Female 4 1887 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Maggie Chambers Granddaughter - Female 2 1889 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland

1911 Census

Residents of a house 23 in Knocknagoney (Ballyhackamore, Down)

McDowall George 52 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Scotland Tailor Read and write Irish
McDowall Annie 48 Female Wife Presbyterian Co Down - Read and write Irish Married - 24 10 6
McDowall George 19 Male Son Presbyterian Scotland Gardener Read and write Irish Single - - - - Gardener
McDowall Sarah 8 Female Daughter Presbyterian Co Down Scholar
McDowall Charlie 13 Male Son Presbyterian Co Down Scholar
McDowall Lizzie 3 Female Daughter Presbyterian Co Down - -
McDowall Joe 11 Male Son Presbyterian Co Down Scholar

George Mc Dowall, Jemmias father could have died when his wife Elizabeth was 1 month or even a few days pregnant.

kellygirl.....

There is no Holywood Townland or Civil Parish in the Co.Kerry . So looking for links in the Co.Kerry would prove fruitless.

This may be the George Annie and family you are looking for....



Residents of a house 15 in Hill Street (Holywood Urban, Down)

Mc Dowell Lizzie 13 Female Daughter Presbyterian Scotland
Mc Dowell George 41 Male Head of Family Presbyterian Scotland Tailor Read and write - Married -
Mc Dowell George 11 Male Son Presbyterian Scotland
Mc Dowell Joseph Male Son Presbyterian Co Down -
Mc Dowell Charles 3 Male Son Presbyterian Co Down - -
Mc Dowell William 6 Male Son Presbyterian Co Down

Mc Dowell Anne 36 Female Wife Presbyterian Co Down -

Kellygirl -

if the censuses posted above are not the right families, please will you post the ones you think are correct?

Wigtown,
1868.

Mc Dowall George age 58,bn abt 1809 ish.

The death in 1867 Dumfries is after the birth of Jemima.bn 1866.

use soundex with a search,

This is the 1861 for above family.



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Mill Hill Street, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland


George McDowall - Married Male 24 1837 Seaman Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elisabeth McDowall - Married Female 24 1837 - Leswalt, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elisabeth McDowall - - Female 4 1857 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
William McDowall - - Male 3 1858 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland

Hi there and thank you, these are not the families i have from the census records as they have stayed in Stranraer since they arrived fro Ireland. There are two other families with conflicting trees, but with matching birth death and marriage certificates, am able to know who is in each family. I feel Elizabeth left with the three youngest when she married David murdoch as i have viewed her marriage to him and she is the correct person. She went on to have three more children with him after 1875 when they married under the name of Murdoch. Whether her husband George McDowell died is possible as he was a mariner and may have drowned at sea. Deaths at sea may be next! They were not farmers or ag labourers at all.There was a Jemima McDowall in each of the families in Stranraer, but other siblings different names. probably related though. Thank you for looking!

Scotland Births and Baptisms 1564-1950 Transcription


First name(s)
Jemima

Last name
McDouall

Gender
Female

Birth year
1866

Father's first name(s)
George

Father's last name
Mcdouall

Mother's first name(s)
Elizabeth

Mother's last name
Gray

Place
Stranraer

County
Wigtownshire


This seems to be the Jemmima in the 1871 above which I have transferred to here. You seem to have seen this. George is described as being born in Stranraer.


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Hanover Square, 29, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland



Elizabeth McDowall Head Widow Female 33 1838 Dealer Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elizabeth McDowall Daughter - Female 14 1857 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
William McDowall Son - Male 12 1859 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
George McDowall Son - Male 10 1861 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
John McDowall Son - Male 8 1863 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Sarah McDowall Daughter - Female 6 1865 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Jemmima McDowall Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Charles McDowall Son - Male 2 1869 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland


Are you perhaps wanting to know if George snr was born in Ireland?

Yes, here is the 1871 for the first family.



1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Old Rome Farm, Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland



George McDowall Head Married Male 43 1828 Ag Lab Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Elizabeth McDowall Wife Married Female 40 1831 - Girthon, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Annie McDowall Daughter Unmarried Female 13 1858 Scholar Girthon, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
George McDowall Son - Male 11 1860 Scholar Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland
Isabella McDowall Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Dalmellington, Ayrshire, Scotland
Jean McDowall Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Kilmaurs, Ayrshire, Scotland
James McDowall Son - Male 2 1869 - Dreghorn, Ayrshire, Scotland
John McDowall Son - Male 0 1871 - Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland

Are you sure this isn't the family?



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Holmston Cot House, Cumnock Road, Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland


George McDowall Head Married Male 29 1832 Ploughman Girthon, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Elizabeth McDowall Wife Married Female 28 1833 - Wigtownshire, Scotland
Margaret McDowall Daughter - Female 7 1854 - Dundonald, Ayrshire, Scotland
William McDowall Son - Male 5 1856 - Girthon, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Eliza A M McDowall Daughter - Female 3 1858 - Anwoth, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
George McDowall Son - Male 1 1860 - Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland




1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Hanover Square, 29, Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland



Elizabeth McDowall Head Widow Female 33 1838 Dealer Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Elizabeth McDowall Daughter - Female 14 1857 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
William McDowall Son - Male 12 1859 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
George McDowall Son - Male 10 1861 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
John McDowall Son - Male 8 1863 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Sarah McDowall Daughter - Female 6 1865 Scholar Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Jemmima McDowall Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland
Charles McDowall Son - Male 2 1869 - Stranraer, Wigtownshire, Scotland


EDIT Just looking at this, it may be two different families.

Hi Kay, I have found the spelling McDouall on Scotland's people and although on Family search have found dates etc they are not in any search results with various spellings. I will check the 1867 of George you have found listed here. Many thanks for you help :-)

Have you varied the spelling or done a soundex search when looking.

M ac/Mc Dowell.


Edit,--Death.?

1867---McDowall George (senior.) age 59.-Dumfries.

George McDowall b 1862 married Annie Smith 1886 in Stranraer Dumfries and Galloway/ Their son Joseph Smith McDowall was born in Hollywood, Kerry Ireland and family say George was from there too but no links found. George McDowall's father was also George and he married Elizabeth Gray. I have the marriage cert of George and Annie,and his mother Elizabeth nee Gray, married Murdoch after she married George, and i have that family on the census. So my question is was George McDowall b. 1862 from Ireland, and why is there no record of his death after the last child Jemima born 1866 and her marrying David Murdoch in 1875. Thank you for any help on this family that seem to have another family listed with similar dates but the children's names different. : :-)