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We are going off marriage certificate , death notice and census details. We have no birth certificate as the lady was tracking the wrong Mary Ann pickles.
I suppose it could be that one you have found because she was born at the end quarter of 1886. There isn't much choice only her and one other for howarth area with middle name Ann or Annie in 1886/7 .
I suppose she could take a risk and get the certificate of this 1886 one. I will ask if she remembers when Mary,s birthday was...that would help . :-)

The one belonging to parents James + Margaret was born during that Quarter and we have discounted her:

Name: Mary Anne Pickles
Birth Date: 10 Sep 1886
Parish: Haworth, St Michael and All Angels
Search Photos: Search for 'Haworth, St Michael and All Angels' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Baptism Date: 31 Oct 1886
Father: James Pickles
Mother: Margaret Pickles

Dea x

There is a Mary Ann pickles born October November December though in 1886...which wouldn't be the Mary with James and Margaret as she was September born. So this December quarter one could be the Mary Ann with dad William ...which may or may not be our elusive Mary ..... :-S

There was a period of 6 weeks in which you had to register a child and so one born mid September could very well have been registered in the Oct, Nov, Dec Quarter.

There is not one registered in the previous Quarter.

Dea x

Maybe the one with parents William and Mary Hannah is the wrong one as on 1891/1901 she has no second name!!

I don't know how you are going to solve this one,as there is no father on her marriage cert.

Maryb.

Yes, its a difficult one to solve. If anyone can offer any suggestions that we might have missed ....i need to check the marriage certificate myself to see if there is any other clue. But i Have seen the church version which is the short one ....and there is no father on there. Strange if she did actually have an official father.
thanks :-) :-) :-S
shirley

can i just ask ---in the 1911 census you found, with mary and william victor pickles down as royles, was the thomas royles also really a pickles ? because that would mean that thomas could be brother of mary ?
Thjanks
shirley :-)

Yes he is down as nephew Thomas Royles age 25 born Burnley.

Maryb.

Thomas Royles was nephew to Henry Radcliffe on that 1911 census

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1884
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
ROYLES Thomas Burnley Preston HOLDEN

Henry Radcliffe married Margaret Holden

Mary Ann & William Pickles were listed below Thomas and were Pickles on the image not Royles

Perhaps Mary pickles was really a widow as she said on that census...even though she was down as a spinster on her wedding later on ? :-S

But if she really was a widow William Victor's birth certificate would have shown Mary Ann's name as Pickles formerly.......

Sigh....Yes...you are right. Well I am attempting to go down the Thomas royles route because without wanting to cast aspersions ...there is the slim chance he may be father of William Victor ....only an assumption. He is same age as Mary and she was lodging there,....or maybe somehow Mary was connected to Holden,s or even royles or radcliffes ...though think not radcliffe or would have said more than lodger.
So think I have found his mum
......thomas royles ....to be amelia nee Holden who died in 1929 in burnley aged 58. And dad was Adam royles but I am unable to find a death yet for him.
Mind you...could never prove anything like that unless found a bastardy order.... :-S

Wondering then if anyone can find amelia royles on the 1891, 1901, 1911 census. Think maybe there may be a bury connection..as in bury lancashire. Have found a birth of an Ernest royles and wonder if that is also son of Adam and Amelia ?
Thanks :-)

Marriage: 23 Oct 1882 Holy Trinity, Habergham Eaves, Lancashire, England
Adam Royles - 27, Moulder, Bachelor, Lomas Street
Amelia Holden - 18, Weaver, Spinster, Pump Street
Groom's Father: Thomas Royles, Moulder
Bride's Father: Jonas Holden, Weaver
Witness: Thomas Royles; Mary Royles

1891 living in Bury

Adam Royles 28
Amelia Royles 27
Thomas Royles 6
George Royles 3

Thankyou for that. Thought there might be a bury connection. Will chase that up .
Thanks again. :-)

Can anyone spot amelia royles on the 1901 or 1911 census at all? Or the 1891 for that matter. It possibly looks like Adam marries again in 1905 ...unless different Adam royles. I thought I had amelia dying in burnley in 1929 but the age is wrong as on her wedding she is down as 18 in 1882 . So born approx 1864 . Someone mentioned she may have gotten married to or lived with a Henry cockcroft but not sure of this either.
Wonder if anyone can find amelia on a census after 1882?

:-)

1901 Chorley D12>23
Henry Cockroft 36
Amelia Cockroft
Thomas Royles 1885 Burnley
George Royles

1911 County lunatic asylum
Henry Cockroft 1865 Attendant
Amelia Cockroft nurse attendant says married 15years 5 children born 2 died.

Maryb.

if that is your Amelia this one could be her burial (they were living in Chorley in 1901)

Burial: 18 May 1916 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England
Amelia Cockcroft -
Age: 51yrs
Abode: Anderston St, Chorley
Grave: A2984

and Henry

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1935
Surname Forename(s) Age or Year of Birth Sub-District
COCKCROFT Henry 71 Chorley

It is possible that Adam & Amelia Royles split up and went to live with different partners. I can't find a Henry Cockroft or Cockcroft marriage. (names often interchangable - I have some in my family too)

Yes that could be true. But think Adam got married. Maybe they divorced ?
Thanks for that :-)

(perhaps relating)

Chris :)

07 January 1893 - Burnley Express - Burnley, Lancashire, England

POLICE INTELLIGENCE.
Amelia Ryles, of Ward-street, summoned husband Adam Royles, a moulder by trade, for desertion.— Complainant stated that she was married to the defendant in 1882 and they had two children living. On the 10th November 1891 they were living in Bury, and on that morning he struck her and said if she had not "taken her hook" to Burnley before he came back he would give her more. In consequence she came to Burnley the same afternoon and he had only paid her 4s since then. Defendant said his wife had left him scores of times, and pawned a lot his clothes...


edits (1905 reference)

Marriage: 14 Jun 1905 St Stephen, Harpurhey, Lancashire, England
Adam Royles - 40, Labourer, Bachelor, 81 Southwell Street
Leah Collins - 36, Reeler, Widow, 73 Southwell Street
Groom's Father: Thomas Royles, Moulder
Bride's Father: James Edwards, Butcher
Witness: William Albert Hannon; Sarah Hannon
Married by Banns by: A. S. Hicks Rector
Register: Marriages 1905 - 1912, Page 4, Entry 8
Source: LDS Film 2113187


Baptism: 30 Jan 1907 St Stephen, Harpurhey, Lancashire, England
Hilda Royles - Child of Adam Royles & Leah
Born: 28 Dec 1906
Abode: 73 Southwell Street
Occupation: Moulder
Notes: Chd.
Baptised by: R. B. Isherwood
Source: LDS Film 2113187

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html


05 December 1914 - Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser

Death
LEAH, beloved wife of Adam ROYLES aged 74 years.

(wrong year above!)


Deaths Mar 1943 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
Royles Leah 74 Manchester 8d 422


1939 Register (Find My Past)

41 Southwell Street , Manchester C.B., Lancashire
Hilda Walters (Royles) 28 Dec 1906 Female Fuze Examiner Single 215 2
Leah Royles 27 May 1868 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed


http://www.findagrave.com/

(above has below Burial, if relating anywhere!)

Adam Royles
Birth: unknown
Death: Mar., 1920
Burial:
Manchester General Cemetery
Manchester
Metropolitan Borough of Manchester
Greater Manchester, England
Plot: Non ConformistSection 508