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Hi
Thankyou all for the latest info really interesting
I will piece together the Famies
Sorry I havnt replied before now the next thing a I am going to do is send for Ann Cooper Hill born about 1872 ish
Her Birth and Marriage Derbyshire

Bye for now and Thankyou
Olive

Thanks Chris- He's listed on Familysearch as Prichard too!

Name Prichard Charles
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 06 Jul 1896
Event Place Cape Town, New Zealand
Gender Male
Marital Status Single
Nationality England
Occupation Child
Departure Port London
Departure Place London
Arrival Port Cape Town
Arrival Place Cape Town
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DT4S-9W2
---------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the death mentioned by ArgyllGran above (Possible death of Elizabeth's Brother). Image is on Familysearch:

South Africa, Cape Province, Civil Deaths
Name Richard Charles
Event Type Death
Event Date 23 Oct 1926
Event Place Aliwal North, Cape Province, South Africa
Residence Place Aliwal North
Gender Male
Age 47
Birth Year (Estimated) 1879
Married
Mechanic
Birth place England

(looks good AQ, Passengers, Find My Past has 'Prichard', for Richard, also other Men on image seem to be occ. Miners)

Chris :)

Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription

Mrs Charles
Eliz Charles
Richard Charles
Clarence Charles

Departure year 1896
Departure day 13
Departure month 5
Departure port LONDON
Destination port CAPE
Destination CAPE
Country SOUTH AFRICA
Destination country SOUTH AFRICA
Ship name TOKOMARU
Ship master's first name J
Ship master's last name MAXWELL
Shipping line SHAW SAVILL & ALBION CO. LIMITED
City LONDON
Ship destination port NEW ZEALAND
Ship destination country NEW ZEALAND

UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960

Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 29 May 1896
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ship Name: Havel

Mrs Sarah Charles 1859 New York, New York, United States 29 May 1896 Southampton, England 37 Havel

Miss Elis Charles 1881 New York, New York, United States 29 May 1896 Southampton, England 15 Havel

Mr Richd Charles 1878 New York, New York, United States 29 May 1896 Southampton, England 18 Havel

Master Clarence M Charles 1894 New York, New York, United States 29 May 1896 Southampton, England 2 Havel

another sister?

South Africa, Church of the Province of South Africa, Parish Registers

Name Maydia Victoria Charles
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 06 Sep 1897
Event Place St Boniface Church, Germiston, Johannesburg, Transvaal, South Africa
Parent Name John Morgan Charles
Parent 2 Name Sarah Charles
Page 27

https://www.myheritage.com/names/clarence_Charles

(above has Clarence)

Chris :)

(says John Cooper born Wales, would account perhaps for name of Baby that died)

Also another sister who died as a baby:

Name Lillian Charles
Event Type Death
Event Date 15 Jul 1895
Event Place Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts
Residence Place Boston, Suffolk, MA
Address 63 Bartlett
Gender Female
Age 0
Marital Status Single
Birthplace Boston, Suffolk, MA
Birth Year (Estimated) 1895
Burial Date 1895
Burial Place Boston, Suffolk, MA
Father's Name John M. Charles
Father's Birthplace Wales, Great Britain
Mother's Name Sarah Cooper
Mother's Birthplace England

A little more info- the family must have moved around, Elizabeth's brother:

Massachusetts Births

Name Clarence Morgan Charles
Event Type Birth
Event Date 27 Dec 1893
Event Place Somerville, , Massachusetts, United states
Father's Name John M. Charles
Mother's Name Sarah Cooper
-------------------------------------------

Reports of Deaths of American Citizens Abroad, 1835-1974

Name: Clarence Morgan Charles
Birth Year: abt 1894
Death Date: 6 Apr 1930
Death Place: South Africa
Age: 36

Address of relatives (so far as known)
Elizabeth Ann O'Handley <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Box 72, Broken Hill, Northern Rhodesia
Relationship: Sister

Marie Evelyn Charles
Bwana M'kubwa, Northern Rhodesia
Relationship: Wife
----------------------------------------------------------

(below matches 1891 Census)

Chris :)

Births Sep 1887 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
CHARLES Gwenilian Basford 7b 148


Deaths Mar 1888 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
CHARLES Gwenllian 0 Belper 7b 405

07 January 1888 - Derbyshire Times and Chesterfield Herald - Chesterfield

Death
Charles - Jan. Ist, at Birchwood, Gwenllian, daughter of John Charles, aged six months.


(Outgoing Passenger Lists, start from 1890)

edits (I did post below earlier, Elizabeth, Sister of Sarah and Ann, perhaps they were there too, George being occ. Miner)


28 June 1873 - Derbyshire Times and Chesterfield Herald - Chesterfield

Marriage
Ellis - Cooper - June 24, at Birchwood Chapel, by the Registrar, Mr. George Ellis, miner, to Elizabeth, daughter of Mr. John Cooper, both of Birchwood.


Marriages Jun 1873 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Ellis George Belper 7b 975
Cooper Elizabeth Belper 7b 975

edits (wondering about George Johnston/Johnson Ellis, Birchwood Lane, Alfreton 1881)


Deaths Sep 1927 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Ellis George J 75 Belper 7b 547


Births Jun 1852 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
ELLIS George Johnson Newark 7b 275


Deaths Mar 1924 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Ellis Elizabeth 71 Belper 7b 940

(possible for her)

Hi
Thankyou for your reply
I understand the post you are on about ,I just wondered when they travelled to South Africa
Now the 1911 Census is clear how the family are related.
It has been very interesting what you all have found out
So a big Thankyou to you all for all your effort
Olive Jean

Olive Jean -

You say,

"Carnt make out the info of Sarah Cooper 1905
Sarah Charles nee Cooper Spouse John Morgan 1920 Maybe they were married"

This is what was posted earlier:

JOHN MORGAN CHARLES Spouse: SARAH COOPER 1905
SARAH CHARLES maiden name:COOPER spouse JOHN MORGAN 1920

I think it 's quite clear that John Morgan Charles married Sarah Cooper.
He died 1905, and she died 1920.

Alfretta was given the name Morgan as her middle name.

This may be the death of their son Richard , from ancestry.co.za (or it may be some totally different Richard Charles!):
RICHARD CHARLES 1926

If you register with the site, a transcription of any of the records posted here from that site can be bought for £3.15 (or equivalent in other currencies).
Not cheap, and can take up to 10 weeks to arrive, but you might think it worth it.


I can't see travel records for any of the family.

Hi Chris
Thankyou for that info

Carnt make out the info of Sarah Cooper 1905
Sarah Charles nee Cooper Spouse John Morgan 1920 Maybe they were married

As Sarah Charles was on 1911 Census UK

Olive
South Africa Webb Site ??

1939 Register (Find My Past)

Mickleone County Hospital , Repton R.D., Derbyshire,
Ann C Darrington Patient ? ? 1872 Female None Widowed

Deaths Sep 1927 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Darrington Joseph W 56 Basford 7b 148


Deaths Mar 1940 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------
Darrington Ann C 67 Shardlow 7b 1246

Chris :)

(not sure what you mean by 'have a reply' regarding Death of Sarah Charles)

Hi Chris
I have tried to haves go on the South Africa Webb sites but no luck
Also I have reply maybe deaths of Sarah Charles nee Cooper
Also maybe her Daughter and Son in law ???

Olive

BIRTHS 3 April 1909
MORGAN - On February 27, at Kimberley, to Mr. and Mrs. John Morgan, of Jeppestown, Johannesburg, a daughter.

(no idea if above relates!)

http://www.eggsa.org/

(The Genealogical Society of South Africa) (Newspapers)

(another often useful below)

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

(National Archives of South Africa. Database)

Chris :)

Hi
I havnt a clue eitherLike you say they could be Deaths
Of her husband John Morgan Charles 1905
And her daughter and husband 1931 and 1933
Maybe someone will help us
Olive

I don't see the marriage either- perhaps Elizabeth was previously/ already married? She may have taken on Stephen's surname?

I don't understand these South African records from http://www.ancestor.co.za/search_beta.asp but I'm presuming they are death dates?

Perhaps someone else can help?

JOHN MORGAN CHARLES Spouse: SARAH COOPER 1905
SARAH CHARLES maiden name:COOPER spouse JOHN MORGAN 1920
ELIZABETH ANN O'HANDLEY maiden name: CHARLES spouse: STEPHEN 1933
STEPHEN O'HANDLEY spouse:SUBSEQUENTLY ELIZABETH ANN 1931

Hi
How can I find the marriage of Elizabeth Charles. And Stephen O Handley on the South Africa National Archives please
Olive
Thankyou all agian