Find Ancestors

1939 reg

Frances Ashworth 1909 Bolton C.B. Lancashire - dob 12.12.1909
Fred Ashworth 1904

so that Frances is apparently married

ASHWORTH Fred Bromiley Bolton 8c 640
Bromiley Frances Ashworth Bolton 8c 640

so ruled out

and so this death noted in the other thread:

Frances Ashworth 12.12.1909 Jul 2001 Bolton Lancashire

is not our Ida Frances

==============================================

also, just to add to the baptisms posted by Dea on page 1:

William Mason 1903
Elizabeth Mabel 1907
Thomas Wilfrid 1908

and Ida Frances 1909 with father 'Robert Henry Ashworth'

there were also:

Joseph Ashworth 5 Aug 1900 Woodplumpton
William Ashworth (farmer), Lilian Ashworth

George Ashworth 8 Sep 1901 Willow House, Woodplumpton
William Ashworth (farmer), Lilian Ashworth

That actually makes 6 children born before 1911.

If the youngest, Ida Frances, was the daughter of Robert Henry Bradshaw, it would have made sense for Lilian to answer the census question *children born alive to present marriage* by saying 'five', i.e. five children of Lilian and William Ashworth.


>>> BUT whoops

ASHWORTH, JOSEPH - MASON
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 646

ASHWORTH, GEORGE - MASON
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 619

ASHWORTH, WILLIAM MASON - MASON
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 573

ASHWORTH, ELIZABETH MABEL - MASON
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 590

ASHWORTH, THOMAS WILFRED - MASON
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 627

>>> None of those children was born to Lilian Horrocks.

Marriages Sep 1898
Ashworth William Preston 8e 1013
Mason Lilian Preston 8e 1013


>>> Lilian Horrocks Ashworth's children were:

ASHWORTH, FRED - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in THE BURNLEY UNION Volume 08E Page 262
- died Dec Q 1902

ASHWORTH, ELLA - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in THE BURNLEY UNION Volume 08E Page 158
- died Jun Q 1907

ASHWORTH, STANLEY - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 271

ASHWORTH, IDA FRANCES - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 473

that makes four ... might she have counted a stillbirth as a birth and deceased child? or a child who died immediately after birth, death registered but not birth?

? ASHWORTH, ALICE MARTINS - HORROCKS
GRO Reference: 1912 M Quarter in BURNLEY Volume 08E Page 404
(is 'Martins' a clue to father's surname?)

There are other Ashworth-Horrocks marriages/births, none in Burnley.

Hi Paul, I don't know why or how you dredged up these two old threads on your first time out here

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/626773

:-)

but Diane may not be looking for updates here so it might be wise to send her a private message.


Meanwhile I wondered, you have >>> Robert Henry Bradshaw in 1911 living at the address where Willie Ashworth lived before? (I haven't absorbed all the info in the thread)

(Edit - no, I see that is the address where 'Mrs Ashworth' lived when she received notice of Willie's death ... so the musings below are plausible. Although he may have declared himself single when he originally enrolled, if he was abandoning her, she may have got onto his records by the time he was called back up for WWI ... she might have kept up a public pretense ... but for him to be writing to her would seem odd, true ...)

Might that tie in with the info on Ida Frances' baptism record in the other thread where we were told that Ashworth was not the father of the two younger girls

Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Ida Frances Ashworth
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1909
Baptism Date: 16 Feb 1910
Parish: Preston, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Father: >>> Robert Henry Ashworth
Mother: >>> Lilian Ashworth

a father's name fabricated from the mother's married surname and the real father's real given names?

I would actually suspect he was the father of most or all of her children.

(Children would have had to be registered with the mother's husband as the father, if she told the truth, as Sylvia described on page 2, but for the baptism, far from where the birth was registered, she might have been a little freer with the facts.)

Bradshaw shows as married 5 years in 1911 but no wife present, so perhaps he was estranged from his wife as well.

Marriages Mar 1906
> BRADSHAW Robert Henry Burnley 8e 292
> Hartley Roseanna Burnley 8e 292
HOPKINS Jane Alice Burnley 8e 292
NUTTALL William James Burnley 8e 292
(the other couple are in the 1911 census)

wife and daughter are with her parents in 1911 in Burnley

William Henry Hartley 68
Elizabeth Ann Hartley 62
Albert Edward Hartley 29
James Hartley 26
> Rosannah Bradshaw 38 married 5 years
> Nelly Bradshaw 1/12

this could fit with him being the father of Lilian's younger chldren ... but what of Nelly ... However, there were no other children to the Bradshaw-Hartley marriage before or after Nellie:

BRADSHAW, NELLIE - HARTLEY
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in BURNLEY Volume 08E Page 178

their deaths

Robert H Bradshaw abt 1875 Jun 1939 Burnley Lancashire
Rosanna Bradshaw abt 1873 Dec 1946 Burnley Lancashire

Nellie Bradshaw married Roberts 1944 Burnley

1939 register

Nellie Badlow (Roberts) 1911 Burnley C.B. Lancashire
Roseanna Bradshaw 1870
James Hardly 1886
W?b Ea Hardly 1881

I don't have a sub so can't tell whether Badlow is a mistranscription of Bradshaw, but I would guess it is - the 'Hardly's would be Roseanna's Hartley brothers.

The 1939 register was taken on 29 September 1939 so Robert was deceased, so whether he and Roseanna were estranged, we don't know.

Hi Diane,

I believe there was only one Willie Ashworth. The question is whether you are on to the correct one looking at the info provided on him living at 210 Accrington Road, Burnley with Lilian. None of this information ties in to the Lilian who was left destitute.

The Lilian in the census from 1911 who was living at 40 Bivel Street, Burnley stated that she had been married 7 years and had given birth to 5 children, 2 of whom had died. Her place of birth is Padiham.

Lilian Horrocks was from Padiham and married Willie Ashworth in 1902. She would have been married 8 or 9 years by the time of the census.

Lilian Horrocks' mother Olivia (born Padiham) was widowed and living in Ormerod Street, Nelson in 1911, which would tie her and Willie back in based on the home address on the marriage certificate of Lilian's father of Ormerod Street.

In 1911 a Robert Henry Bradshaw (38 and married) was living alone at 210 Accrington Road, Burnley. What is interesting is that he is a beer house keeper, working at home. So was 210 Accrington Road a pub in those days? From the census it appears to be a normal household though.

Maybe Willie had been lying about his marital status etc. to the army and he'd been living alone at 210 Accrington Road, but then why write to his wife?

The facts do appear to tie Willie and Lilian together but there also appear to be a number of untruths too :-(.

Regards

Paul

Is it possible that more information could be found for Private 8226 Willie Ashworth.
If or when he died in WW1.
I did once see a photo of him in the Burnley Express but not sure if it was a death or missing in action notice.
Thank you.

I think we are back to the other Willie Ashworth.
Willie Ashworth 8746 writing home to his wife could not have abandoned Lilian so he cannot be the father it does not fit.
I am thinking that maybe Willie Ashworth 8226 age 30 married Lilian Horrocks in 1902 and 2 years later in 1904 left her. The Lilian who went to jail had a baby but was it his if he said he had no children or maybe it died.

another little tidbit from this site

http://www.burnleyinthegreatwar.info/burnleyrollofhonourmena/ashworthwillie8746.htm

http://www.burnleyinthegreatwar.info/nelsonleaderwarrecord/ashworthwillie9746fnelsonleaderbook%20(3).JPG


he had served 3 years in India, finished his service in 1905, and had to serve 9 years on the reserve. He only had a month left when WW1 began.

There is another little bit .................

http://www.burnleyinthegreatwar.info/nelsonleaderwarrecord/ashworthwillie9746gnelsonleaderbook%20%283%29.JPG

he leaves a wife but NO CHILDREN


????????????????????

"connected with the ambulance brigade" doesn't really seem to fit with Lillian working in a factory, and ending up in court and jail ?????

Amazing what you are all finding for me.
My father used to tell me his mother was a nurse or had a connection
to something medical but I put that down to him having a nice dream in his head but maybe there could be a slight truth if Willie his father was with the ambulance brigade. For a little boy growing up in a workhouse I think he was giving himself a family life telling me that his mother was something to do with nursing and his father went to War and died in 1914. He also said his mother died of cancer ?He did know both parents worked as weavers.
I am thinking that most of his information was given him as an adult young man in Burnley by local people. He worked as a gardener for the local corporation in the local parks.

Another article- a little more info (an address for Lilian!!):

Burnley News - Saturday 28 November 1914

Barrowford Man Killed in Action

Mrs Ashworth who resides at 210 Accrington Road, Burnley, received a communication fron the war office on Thursday morning that her Husband, Private Willie Ashworth of the King's Liverpool Regiment has been killed in action on 28th October at a place not known. Private Ashworth was a Barrowford man and he and his wofe were formerly associated with the Ambulance Division. He enlisted in 1904 and served 3 years with his regiment in India after which he returned to Barrowford. He and his wife came to reside in Burnley in June, and he worked as a weaver at Messrs Proctors in Stoneyholme. His last letter was dated October 9th when he stted he had been in the trenches 9 days and had not had the clothes off his back for a month. He expressed the hope that he would be able to come home at the end of the war, but would be lucky to do so. Whilst he was writing the letter bullets and shells were whistling round.
Private Ashworth had been officially reported missing but it was before he wrote the letter- which, however, did not contain any reference to having being missed.

Think this is the article with the photo that was mentioned earlier:

Burnley Express - Saturday 07 November 1914

BARROWFORD MAN MISSING
Another Burnley Reservist reported missing id Private Willie Ashworth 8746 of the King's Liverpool Regiment. Private Ashworth is a native of Barrowford, and after serving in the army he settled down at Barrowford only removing to Burnley a few weeks before the outbreak of war. Private Ashworth was well known at Barrowford for his work in connection with the local ambulance brigade. About a month ago his wife received a letter from him stating he was quite well. though he had had a rough time and never had his clothes off his back for a month. He wrote the letter in the trench amid flying shells and bullets. On September 28th his wife received an official notification that he had then been missing a fortnight.

MarieCeleste.

Is there any way you can going the papers to show when Wille Ashworth 8746
joined the Army as that may show who his family was. Thank you.

MarieC- great info re back pay and war gratuity confirming Lilian as his wife.

No I had not thought of that I would not know how to start. I have limited access to research. I just have a month to month on Genes Reunited now I am retired.
I do try to find info on FMP and Ancestry.co.uk but can only get so far as more info needs a subscription.
Very much appreciating all the help everyone is giving me even though it is all confusing I am trying to piece it together.
It would be wonderful if Lilian's sister Margaret did pass on any family history to her family.how to find that out would be an issue I think.
I did trace the family of my grandfather Wille Ashworths brother Alfred he had a son Arthur a first cousin to my father Stanley but Arthur's family said they new nothing at all of Willie.

The UK Register of Soldiers' Effects for the Willie Ashworth died 28 Oct 1914 (no 8746, 1st Btn Liverpool regt) shows back pay of £5 17s 4d plus the war gratuity of £5 went to a widow named Lilian.

Another article a year earlier than the others: I actually wonder if any of her surviving children were fathered by Willie?

Burnley Express - Saturday 02 December 1905

NELSONS FACTORY GIRL'S THEFTS

On Wednesday at Preston Sessions Lilian Ashworth (22) a factory operative, pleaded guilty to stealing a watch and chain.....
The prisoner pleaded that she had been left destitute by her husband, and, furthermore had paid off certain liabilities incurred by him. She called her mother, who lives in Nelson, and she confirmed her daughter's story that she had been hard pressed for money.
She was sent to prison for three months with hard labour, on each charge, the sentences to run concurrently.
-------------------------------------------------

Have you traced Lilian's sister, Margaret Alice Horrocks- does her family have any information?

Baptism:
Name: Margaret Alice Horrocks
Birth Date: 31 Jan 1886
Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1886
Parish: Padiham, Lancashire, England
Father: William Horrocks
Mother: Olivia Mary Horrocks
Register Type: Parish Registers
Reference Number: Pr 2863/1/10
--------------------------------------------------------

1911
Name: Margaret Alice Bailey
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Nelson, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Nelson
County/Island: Lancashire
Street address: 39 Forest Street Nelson Lanc
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Cotton Weaver
Registration district: Burnley
Registration District Number: 472
Sub-registration district: Nelson
ED, institution, or vessel:5 Piece: 24885

Name Age
John Bailey 26
Margaret Alice Bailey 25
Margaret Olivia Bailey 2

Here's that 1911 census, so Mary is quite correct. That's a different family

William Ashworth
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Barton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Goosnargh
Search Photos: Search for 'Goosnargh' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: Wood Fold Goosnargh
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Farmer
Registration district: Preston
Registration District Number: 476
Sub-registration district: Broughton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 25355
Household Members:
Name Age
William Ashworth 38
Lilian Ashworth 32
Ellen Ashworth 12
Joseph Ashworth 10
George Ashworth 9
William Ashworth 7
Mable Ashworth 4
Thomas Ashworth 3
John Tomlinson 21

The 3 children named earlier were the children of
William Ashworth a farmer born 1873 Barton Lancs
Lilian Asworth born Barton 1879

1911 Wood Fold Goosnargh Lancs
William and Lilian Ashworth married 12 years 6 children all alive.

Maryb.

Just confirming Mary:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
7 Grey St Barrowford Nelson, Barrowford, Lancashire, England

Edwin Heath Head Married Male Stoker Electricity Works 30 1881 Cold Ashton Derbys
Elizabeth Heath Wife Married Female - 30 1881 Workington Cumberland
Edwin Heath Son - Male - 9 1902 Hull Yorkshire
Elizabeth Heath Daughter - Female - 6 1905 Hull Yorkshire
Victor Heath Son - Male - 5 1906 Worthington Cumberland
William Ashworth Visitor Married Male Cotton Weaver 27 1884 Barrowford Lanc

He Is down as William on 1911 Cencus!

Maryb.

He was still a minor when they married, so would have needed the permission of his father.

Did he and Lillian just separate almost immediately after the marriage, and go their own ways?

Any child she had after the marriage would have carried his surname .................


if you look at an English birth certificate, the baby does not have a surname. The first surname in the 4th column is the one that the baby is known by.

A married woman will give her husband's name, and then her maiden name.

A baby born 10 years after the death of her husband will carry that man's name because that is her legal name.

She could tell the Registrar the name of the real father if that is different .... but he then has to be there, or make a declaration that he is the father.