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that's true, the sequence could be the other way around - married to Hall, going by Vernon

I was just following up on the possibility that Lesley posted in the OP, the Amelia Vernon in the 1851 and 1861 censuses (since she had not posted the details)

if that Amelia Mary Hall who died in 1879, born abt 1794, was the person, any original marriage and the birth of daughter Ada would precede registration of course

I'm not convinced- The wording of the Will could mean that Amelia was the wife of George James Hall, but went by the name Vernon. She could have been married at anytime to George Hall. It may have been that Aviott only knew her as Vernon?

In 1861 Aviott is living at 17 Old Cavendish Street, but no Amelia listed with him. He has a lodger Constantine ? a married Government servant from Moscow, Russia.

Once you start looking there seem to be lots of frustrating possibilities!!

Name: Amelia Mary Hall
Estimated birth year: abt 1794
Registration Year: 1879
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Camberwell
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d Page: 572

from the beginning of the thread

'in '51 and '61 I have Amelia Vernon bn Southampton shown as 'landed proprietor' , in '51 she is married but in '61 she is widowed'

okay this must be the census record in question in 1851

Name: Amelia Vernon
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Gender: Female
Where born: Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: St Martin in the Fields
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: St Martin In The Fields
married, no occupation shown

and then 1861

Name: Amelia Vernon
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: 1827
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Southampton, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
address: 12 Blenheim St
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
widow, landed proprietor, lodger in the Wigforth household, Mr Wigforth a hairdresser

her age varied considerably

there is no daughter with her in either census, but by the time of a will in 1862, 'our' Amelia has a daughter ...

it strikes me that this is might well be the death of the Amelia Vernon in the 51 and 61 censuses

Deaths Dec 1909
VERNON Amelia 85 Chelsea 1a 225
= dob c1824

I wonder whether that death certificate might hold any clues

I suspect that 'our' Amelia Vernon was not actually 'Mrs' Hall but represented herself publicly as such (perhaps if Mr Hall had an existing marriage)

Hi, Yes I got all of this info from the General Cemetery Company back in 1986 and have based my research on it.
The will is very brief..... I Aviett Aganoor of 17 Old Cavendish Street, Cavendish Square, Middx, make my last will and testament... I appoint Amelia Vernon of (same address) executrix of this my will and give and bequeath all my property whatsoever after payment of my debts and funeral... to Ada Vernon daughter of the said Amelia Vernon......for her absolute use and benifit and do hereby revoke .....In witness and proof I have ? ? my mark this twenty eightth day of January 1862 - Signed by the said testator by affixing his mark on that day and year above ? in the presence of us who at his request in his presence all being present together have hereto ? our names as witnesses. Edward Raphael, Ditton Lodge, Thames Ditton - Wilmot Packer, 6 Upper Chayne Row, Chelsea.
Proved at London the 29th April 1862 by the oath of Amelia Hall otherwise Vernon (wife of George James Hall) the sole exacutrix to whom Admon was granted.
His effects came to under £450 and on that document, dated 29.4.1862 are his previous addresses, Sherard St, Golden Square and afterward Tichbourne Street, Regants Park. Then Amelias address of 24, Robert Street, Oxford Street, Middx which presumably is her married home as she is now Mrs Hall so the marriage must have taken place between Jan and April 1862.
Having carefully read this info through again I have noted that he affixed his mark which I found surprising and noted the names of the witnesses which I will look at again. Thanks again for all your suggestions I have plenty to be looking into.

Index to Register of Passport Applications 1851-1903 Transcription
Print transcription View image
First name(s) Avrett
Last name Aganoor
Application year 1854
Record set Index to Register of Passport Applications 1851-1903
Category Travel & migration
Subcategory Travel
Collections from Great Britain

Probate of Aviett Aganoor ( sorry if this has already been posted here)

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=aganoor&yearOfDeath=1862&page=2#calendar

then jump to page 4 where it continues

This is a tough one!!

I'd be interested to know the wording of the Will (Aviott Aganoor).

Is no relationship mentioned? Was Mary mentioned as Amelia's second name? Who were the other beneficiaries? Where/ how is Ada mentioned?

http://www.kensalgreencemetery.com/contact/index.html

(don't suppose above hold anything to relate perhaps, or is that how you knew she bought a grave)

Chris :)

(from your other query on link)

Does anyone know anything about these three people.
In May 1862 Mrs Amelia Mary Vernon bought a grave in Kensal Green cemetery, at the time she was living at 21 Robert Street, Oxford Street, W1. In 1868 my ancestor John Mills Probyn was interred there with no MI. In 1868 William Henry Stocker was buried in the same grave. This plot is next to a common grave and may have been particulary chosen because of this, in the common grave was buried in Jan 1862 a Aviot Aganoor, and his MI together with that of WH Stocker appear on a headstone on the grave where my ancestor is buried. Complicated!

Chris tell us what it says so the info is in the thread!

Amelia Vernon widow died 1879 Heavitree Devon
will proved by Walter Wellsman of Islington and Harry Rew Sr of Heavitree

oops I lost the thread ... this rules out that Amelia, right, by the conflicting death and censsu info

thanks Chris- not the Amelia who we're looking for then :(

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=vernon&yearOfDeath=1879#calendar

(Amelia, with Wellsman connection above)

Deaths Sep 1879 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Vernon Amelia 77 St. Thomas 5b 33

Chris :)

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar

Just backtracking a little to this marriage put up earlier by Greyghost:

Name: George Joseph Vernon <<<<<<<<Widow
Spouse: Amelia Wallis <<<<<<<<< Widower
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Nov 1853
Parish: Parish Chapel, St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Father Name: George Vernon
Spouse Father: Nicholas Wellsman
Register Type: Parish Register

George is a Mariner residing in St Ann Limehouse at time of marriage. Father George deceased.
Amelia is living in St Pancras, Father Nicholas deceased.
--------------------------------------------

Possible death for George in 1861:

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: George Joseph Vernon
Probate Date: 28 Dec 1861
Registry: Exeter
Death Date: 7 Dec 1861
Death Place: Devon, England

VERNON George Joseph: 28 December . Letters of administration (with the Will annexed) of the personal estate of George Joseph Vernon late of Whipton in the county of Devon Mariner deceased who died 7 December 1861 at Whipton aforesaid were granted at Exeter to Amelia Vernon of Whipton aforesaid Widow the Relict and the Universal Legatee named in the said Will she having been first sworn.
-----------------------------------------

Devon Burials Transcription

name(s) George Joseph Vernon
Age 56
Birth year 1805
Death year 1861
Burial date 12 Dec 1861
Denomination Anglican
Burial place Heavitree
County Devon
Archive South West Heritage Trust
---------------------------------------------

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Whipton, Heavitree, St Thomas, Devon, England

George Vernon Head Married Male 46 1815 Retired Mariner Deal, Kent,
Amelia Vernon Wife Married Female 48 1813 Retired Mariners Wife Sidbury, Devon,

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=vernon&yearOfDeath=1869&page=5#calendar

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=vernon&yearOfDeath=1888&page=2#calendar


(to add to Southampton one, came across above this morning, links to below)

Chris :)

Marriages Mar 1886 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ADAMS William Trewin Kensington 1a 315
SANDEMAN Laura Violette Kensington 1a 315
Treleaven Alice Lavinia Kensington 1a 315
VAN NYVEL Laura Violette Kensington 1a 315
VERNON Laura Violette Kensington 1a 315
Weldon Ernest Kensington 1a 315

edits

31 October 1868 - Northampton Mercury - Northampton, Northamptonshire

Death
Oct. 20, at Drumlanford House, N. B., Emilie, relict of the late Captain Leicester Vernon, R.E., M.P., of Ardington House, Berks.


Deaths Jun 1860 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
VERNON Leicester Viney Marylebone 1a 336

(and Viney Vernon brings items on google)

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
Print transcription
First name(s) Douglas
Last name Vernon
Name note -
Marriage year 1852
Marriage date 1852
Marriage place Stratfield Turgis, Hampshire, England
Father's first name(s) Leicester Viney Smith
Father's last name Vernon
Mother's first name(s) -
Mother's last name -
Spouse's first name(s) Catherine Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Brown
Spouse's father's first name(s) Henry
Spouse's father's last name Brown
Spouse's mother's first name(s) -
Spouse's mother's last name -
Residence Stratfield Turgis, Hampshire, England
Place Stratfield Turgis
County Hampshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Marriages Jun 1852 (>99%)
BROWN Catherine Elizabeth Basingstoke 2c 251
Vernon Douglas Basingstoke 2c 251

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K6MD-LGG

Hi all, Thanks, I do have all the Aganoor census and death certs for all three men.
I will look at the George Joseph/Amelia Williams/Wellsman clue but George James Hall is clearly named on the will info I suppose the could have mistaken the name.
I have followed the Isle of Man connection but discounted it because at her marriage Amelia is named as Amelia Margaret Halfhide, bn Ghazapore, West Bengal in 1814 where she lived until, after her husband died she returned with her family prior to 1859 when the first child off dau Eleanor was born on the Isle of Mann, Amelia died on the island in 1892.
I will look at the EIC link, many thanks. Lesley

Births Jun 1862 (>99%)
VERNON Viney Sigismund Hartley W 2c 151

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Drumlamford House, Colmonell, Ayrshire, Scotland

Learn more
Print transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Bryan Viney Douglas Vernon Head Married Male 40 1831 Major Herts Militia Ireland
Transcription
Cathrine Elizabeth Vernon Wife Married Female 40 1831 Gentle Woman England
Transcription
Blanch Vernon Daughter - Female 12 1859 Scholar England
Transcription
Edith Vernon Daughter - Female 10 1861 Scholar England
Transcription
Tigismand Viney Vernon Son - Male 8 1863 Scholar England
Transcription
Rose Cathrine Vernon Daughter - Female 6 1865 Scholar Colmonell, Ayrshire, Scotland
Transcription
Emily Alice Mary Vernon Daughter - Female 5 1866 Scholar England
Transcription
Ernest Sholts Douglas Vernon Son - Male 3 1868 - Colmonell, Ayrshire, Scotland
Transcription
Clifford Felix Henry Visitor Married Male 53 1818 Retired Army Officer Ireland
Transcription
James Craig Servant Unmarried Male 37 1834 Butler Ayrshire, Scotland
Transcription
Susan Brown Servant Unmarried Female 56 1815 Nurse Ireland
Transcription
Isabella Murray Servant Widow Female 66 1805 Cook Wigtownshire, Scotland
Transcription
Jamima McDonald Servant Unmarried Female 28 1843 Laundry Maid Dingwall, Ross & Cromarty, Scotland
Transcription
Jane Sinclair Servant Unmarried Female 20 1851 House Maid Wigtownshire, Scotland
Transcription
James Campbell Servant Unmarried Male 26 1845 Groom Ayrshire, Scotland
Transcription
Annie Craig Servant Unmarried Female 16 1855 Kitchen Maid Colmonell, Ayrshire, Scotland
Transcription
Margaret Cleary Servant Unmarried Female 14 1857 Nurse Maid Colmonell, Ayrshire, Scotland
Transcription
David Neilson Servant Unmarried Male 19 1852 Labourer Colmonell, Ayrshire, Scotland

????


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hartley Grange, Phoenix Green, Hartley Wintney, Hampshire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
B Vernon Head Married Male 30 1831 ... Ireland
Transcription
Elizabeth Vernon Wife Married Female 20 1841 - Hampshire, England
Transcription
... ... Vernon Son - Male 8 1853 Scholar Middleton, Berkshire, England
Transcription
Henry H Vernon Son - Male 5 1856 Scholar -
Transcription
... Vernon Daughter - Female 2 1859 - -
Transcription
Edith Vernon Daughter - Female 0 1861 - -
Transcription
Emila Vernon Mother Widow Female 56 1805 ... -
Transcription
Arthur Mainwaring Visitor Married Male 45 1816 ... Cheshire, England
Transcription
George Hoggs Grandson Unmarried Male 17 1844 ... Surrey, England
Transcription
Edward Eversed Grandson Unmarried Male 22 1839 Coachman -
Transcription
Jane Taylor Housemaid Unmarried Female 33 1828 House Maid Surrey, England
Transcription
Eliza Halfacres Nurse Unmarried Female 40 1821 Nurse Pensby, Kent, England
Transcription
Sarah Edwards ... Unmarried Female 16 1845 ... Kent, England
Transcription
Elizabeth Nobay Cook Unmarried Female 10 1851 Cook Ardington, Berkshire, England


b vernon the head of the family is a landed proprietor

could be a family connection