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My grandfather was James Burns. I have been told his middle name was Patrick. I do not know where he was born, but later lived in Dromore County Down and Belfast. He died in 1972. He was married twice. My mother Mary Bridget Burns born 3/2/27 was the last child of the first family. She had at two maybe more brothers. Kevin was one of them, he moved to Scotland. James (Jim) another who moved to southern England. The second family include Agnes & Ann(e) twins, Gerald, Phillip and Colum(sp). I can not find out any information about him or his ancestors. I was told he played international football for one season. I never knew my grandmother's name either. My mother was born in Northern Ireland, so I was told, but I can't find a birth certificate/or don't know how to find one for N.Ireland. I was told my grandmother either died in childbirth with my mother or a few years later. Anyone who is good with research in Ireland,I would love you to help me.

How certain are you of his date of birth?

You can view the Irish census 1901 and 1911 at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

I wonder about this one?

Cennsus Years 1911DownDromore UrbanGallowsResidents of a house

Residents of a house 28 in Gallows (Dromore Urban, Down)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion
Burns James 36 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
Burns Bridget 35 Female Wife Roman Catholic
Burns James Patrick 9 Male Son Roman Catholic <<<<<<<
Burns John 7 Male Son Roman Catholic
Burns Mary Eveline 5 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Burns Michael 3 Male Son Roman Catholic
Burns Sarah Male Daughter Roman Catholic
Mulgrave Alice 29 Female Sister in Law Roman Catholic

Rambling Rose.. his DOB is circa. The James Patrick aged 9 could be him. But I have no idea how to prove it. Do you have any idea how I can find my mother's birth certificate. She was born in Ireland and her DOB is correct.
And yes they were Catholic :-)

Vivian...Only 1 Jas.Burns played 1922/1923 Season as a NI International..here are his details...

http://nifootball.blogspot.co.uk/2006/08/james-burns.html

Born Dromore Co Down played for Glanavon then Reading

Eringobragh1916 - That's him. My mother told me this but she wasn't the best for the truth. Then one of the daughter's of her half brother repeated it. But when I looked about 10 years ago, could find nothing at all. And put it down to one of those family myths. Didn't know he came to England though. Thank you very very much.

Did you notice there was a notation from his daughter Anne 2009

Played for Reading FC Season 24/25 then returned to NI....DOB given as below

Burns, James 1898-11-30 Northern Ireland Striker 24/25

Thanks, tbh I didn't notice the DOB as I was so pleased to be given that info.

This is the nearest birth I can find for your mother:


Name:Bridget Mary Burns

Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1927

Registration district:Clones

Volume:3

Page:89

Clones is in Co Monaghan

Thank you Potty. That is interesting . With my family half truths have been the norm. I wonder if she was Bridget Mary then and not the other way around. This could be her. However I am beginning to wonder how long my grandfather stayed in England with the football etc and whether maybe she was born in England. She also mentioned something about being in Eire at some time, but again these tales are all taken with a pinch of salt. Swore blind she was related to General de Gaulle.. where do you start??? Going to have a look at English births. Has anyone got the correct link for both Irish and Northern Irish records? Also they were pretty staunch Catholics, any baptism hints anyone could point me in the correct direction? Thanks to everyone x

This site has BMDs for Northern Ireland:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/

searching is free but you have to buy credits to view original entries. I tried searching for James birth using the DOB given above but nothing came, the same for Mary Bridget. The birth I posted above in Clones is in County Monaghan which is not in NI.

This site is useful for all Ireland:

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

Thanks. Its all quite interesting. She told me she was born in N.I. But there is no trace of her. Can't find her on the mainland either. Her DOB is correct. Of course when James was born Ireland was one country. What I am going to try to do is to find her half siblings and see if I can find James' info from there.

Vivian.
.From some of the sites I checked re Football history it appears he only spent 1 season at Reading 23/24 and returned to Ireland..some say "Retired" but again another says retired following season 22/23 Glenovan but he did play for Reading and that's according to their team for season 23/24.
I would suspect he married and had the children back home...usually players are contracted. from beg of season to end ...Sept..May....not much time to marry and start having family..It would of course depend on length of contract but he wasn't playing 25/26 season.

Drawn a blank with them as well on the NI site. This is so frustrating. When I used the info for Bridget Mary in Clones, I added father's name but it came up as no match.

Vivien, do you know your mother's mother's maiden name? If we can find a marriage for James it would confirm his father's name, which would help to confirm census and birth records.

Just checked on the GRONI site, and you can only search for birth records over 100 years old, so your mother's would not be viewable. Are you in contact with his daughter, Anne, who posted the comment on the football site? She may have some more info.

I don't know anything about my grandmother at all. My mother was not on good terms with any but one of the second family. I have not idea where she is or if she would be willing to help. However somewhere I have the name of his second wife, if I find that marriage it could me more info. Not a close family at all. Secrets everywhere. Also a strong rumour that my mother had a baby boy Patrick? before she met my father and had him adopted. I wondered if this was why she was in London, as that is where she was living when she met my father. This would have been before 1951. It is all giving me a headache.

My step grandmother was Mary Agnes McGoldrick 1909 -1993. Again this will be Ireland

This looks like James's second marriage - if you buy credits on the GRONI site you will be able to see the original entry which should name James's father:

M/1933/B1/2330/37/69 James Burns McGoldrick 2nd October 1933 Belfast
M/1933/B1/2330/37/69 Mary McGoldrick Burns 2nd October 1933 Belfast

Thank you Potty. I will give it a go. The other side of my family I managed to trace back some of them to 1600, ploughed through numerous Jones and Davies in Wales as well... but this Irish lot has me stumped.

Thank you found his father on the certificate as John Burns (dec).. witnesses are John Burns and Elizabeth McGoldrick . Can't find his birth on that site which makes me believe maybe he was born in what is now Eire. Little steps going fwd though. Thanks for the help.