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Hi All,
I wonder if someone could help me with my family puzzle … Who was the birth parents of Alphonso Manley, born abt 1872 and Frederick Henry Manley, born abt 1867.

This puzzle has stumped me as I can't find them in birth or baptism records.

My Great Grandfather was Alfred or Alphonso Manley. He was born abt 1872 in Rotherhithe. He married Charlotte Edge and had 8 children that I have been able to find.

On Alfred’s marriage to Charlotte Edge, dated 26 May 1890, at St Mary Magdalene, Southwark, it gives his father as James Manley – Labourer.

When Alfred’s first child was born, his daughter’s baptism shows Ethel May Manley's father is listed as Alphonse Manley.

Whilst I was looking through the marriage registers I found a marriage for Frederick Henry Manley on 8 Nov 1888, at St Mary Magdalene, Southwark to Eliza Ann McDonald with the same James Manley details.

After locating Frederick’s marriage I then looked through the 1881 Census and located James Manley, Susan Manley, Frederick & Alphonso Manley, living at 57 Cornbury Rd.

I then looked for James & Susan’s marriage. James Manley & Susan Adams were married on 12 Apr 1875 at St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich. (Husband's occupation: Gunner Royal Horse Artillery)

Going by the marriage date it shows Alphonso and Frederick's parents married after they were born.

I have looked through the birth Indexes for Alfred/Alphono Manley and Frederick Henry Manley and haven't been able to find them.

I have also tried looking at just the first name Alphonso, born in London/Middlesex area and have compared all surnames that would fit to Frederick Henry and have come up with nothing.

Any Ideas how to solve this problem?

Many thanks,

Angela

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
57, Cornbury Road, St Paul Deptford, Greenwich, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Manley Head Married Male 63 1818 Dock Labourer Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Susan Manley Wife Married Female 43 1838 Charwoman Greenwich, Kent, England
Transcription
Frederick Manley Son Single Male 14 1867 Milk Carrier -
Transcription
Alphonsa Manley Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar -

Found this in 1871. Correct family?? If correct pushes the birth of Alphonso back to 1870

Name:Fredk Manly
Age:3
Estimated birth year:abt 1868
Relation:Son
Father's name:T H Manly
Mother's name:S R Maney
Gender:Male
Where born:Rotherhithe
Civil Parish:Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish:All Saints Town:
London
County/Island:Surrey
Country:England
Registration district:St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district:Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel:7
Household schedule number150
Piece:643
Folio:46
Page Number:29
Household Members:
Name
Age


T H Manly 55
S R Maney 33
Louise Maney 16
S M Manly 12
Marth Manly 7
Fredk Manly 3
Alp Manly 9 Months

Andy

Baptism of a child of James and Susan?

Name: Susan Manley
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Oct 1876
Father's name: James Manley
Mother's name: Susan Manley
Parish or Poor Law Union: Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Greenwich
Register Type: Parish Registers

Father a gunner R A. She was born 3 oct and there is PB (private baptism?) in the margin, so maybe it looked like she wouldn't live?

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wellington Street, Rotherhithe, St Olave Southwark, London, England

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
L H F Manly Head - Male 53 1818 - Surrey, England
Transcription
S R Manly Wife - Female 33 1838 - Kent, England
Transcription
Louise Manly Daughter - Female 16 1855 - Kent, England
Transcription
S M Manly Daughter - Female 12 1859 - Kent, England
Transcription
Marth Manly Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Surrey, England
Transcription
Fredk Manly Son - Male 3 1868 - Surrey, England
Transcription
Alp Manly Son - Male 0 1871 - Surrey, England


father is a labourer

This could be James on the 1871 Worldwide army list:

First name(s) James
Last name Manley
Service number 837
Rank Driver
Unit or Regiment Riding Establishment, Royal Artillery
HQ location Woolwich
Year 1871
Country Great Britain
National Archives reference WO 10/2865
Period 01/04/1871-30/06/1871
Record set 1871 Worldwide British Army Index - British Army Other Ranks & locations

Anglea does have another thread about this family

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1354649,
although it is about the James in the RA and his daughters baptism.

This is the James Manley, Gunner RA, who married in Woolwich in 1875 to Susan Adams - he was born in Honiton (see Angela's other thread):

Name:James Mauley
[James Manley]

Age:28
Estimated birth year:abt 1853
Relationship to Head:Servant (Head) (Servant) - Occupation is Gunner
Gender:Male
Where born:Honiton, Devon, England
Civil Parish:Aldershot
County/Island:Hampshire
Country:England
Street address:Arthur St 7 Cyprus Villas
Marital Status:Married
Education:
Gunner R.H.A.

Registration district:Farnham

Albert W. Williams 49
James Mauley 28
Susan Mauley 29
James Mauley 3
John Mauley 1

Thanks Potty - I see I've just been finding stuff that's already on the other thread. :-(

Wow you all have been busy. I didn't think my Baptism enquiry for Susan Manley and Birth Parents puzzle would merge together.

There is a tree on Ancestry which has Alphonso & Frederick's parents as James Manley and Susan Adams - pretty sure that is the wrong couple

Thank you for the 1871 Census transcript, You are right it does look a fit. Just got to figure out the parents names. Hopefully it starts with Susan.

Tried to look at other thread - Error message - Thread does not exist!!

Hi Potty,
That is one of my trees on Ancestry. It's been difficult trying to work out who Frederick & Alphonso's parents were. All I knew is that they were all living together in 1881 and listed as sons. The father's birth info made it difficult for me as well. Well you know what I had to go on as I've listed it all for you. I just couldn't see the path.

Just been on the thread, greyghost, still there!

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1354649

This link works - don't know what happened with the first one!.

The second link working thank you Potty - but the first one still isn't - strange!

First link doesn't work because there's a comma after the thread number.

I'm going to have to come back to the 1871 Census mentioned. Haven't been able to find Matha or Louise in any of the census with parents names that possibly match up with the initials. Got to cook dinner now.

Thanks everyone. x

Oh to be bright eyed and bushy tailed Margee - and to understand things technical !!

Going on from 1871 posted above, could this be the same family in 1861??


Name:Susette R Jordan
Age:30
Estimated birth year:1831
Relation:Wife
Spouse's Name:James W Jordan
Gender:Female
Where born:Greenwich, Kent, England
Civil Parish:Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish:All Saints
County/Island:Surrey
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district:Rotherhithe
Sub-registration district:Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel:11
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household schedule number:150
Piece:390
Folio:101
Page Number:28
Household Members:
Name
Age

James W Jordan 33
Susette R Jordan 30
James J Jordan 8
Susannah Jordan 6
Louisa M Jordan 6
Mary A Jordan 4

Andy