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Kerensky,
Re your post of: 23 Sep at 23.32

If you return to my message of 15 Aug , you will find that James Frizzell married Hessie Brown in Greenock in 1884

Ah scratch that last message, I spelt the name wrong which is why i couldn't find it. This is a great thread, I was able to back track through the info and see where I had gone wrong.

So I have-

Grandad George Frizzell marriage license 1951
Great Grandad Hugh Frizzell marriage license 1904
Great Great Great Grandad Hugh Frizzell marriage license 1859

So I appear to be missing-

Great Great Grandad James Frizzell married to Hessie Brown marriage license. I can't seem to locate it. Can anybody help? It should be logged in Greenock I think?

There's a father's name listed on my g g grandmother's marriage cert but she was base born.

If I were you, I'd wait for that birth cert

The birth certificate for Frank Henry Simms yet to land but having done a search for the father listed on his wedding certificate this person seems to be the likely father-

England & Wales births 1837-2006
First Name HARRY
Last Name SIMMS
Birth Year 1862
Gender Male
Mother's Maiden Name
Year 1862
Country England
County Warwickshire
Event Quarter 2
District SHIPSTON ON STOUR
District Number
Volume 6D
Page 580
Entry Number
Line Number 114
DOR
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Collections from Great Britain

°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o° :-)

I do have Frank Henry Simms birth certificate on order so fingers crossed it delivers the information for his mum & dad.

Kerensky you're a long way from having to pay a pro.

I still have one or two GRO certificates to surface from the Registry so they may offer further insights. Failing that I may put a few quid to one side for a professional genealogist to get to the bottom of this mystery.

Kerensky the problem is, Frank Henry was brought up by his uncle George Simms who doesn't seem to have a brother named Harry.

I suspect that Frank's birth cert name Charlotte or Elizabeth Simms as his mother but I could be wrong

Fascinating stuff ArgyllGran, must have been tough on Grandad george loosing his first wife at such an early point in his life.

Something still doesn't add up with great grandad Frank Henry Simms marriage certificate. His father is listed as Harry Simms and I think I can find Harry Simms here-

HARRY SIMMS
England & Wales births 1837-2006
Collections from
Great Britain
Country
England
County
Warwickshire
Year
1862
Birth Year
1862
Event Quarter
2
District
SHIPSTON ON STOUR

But no apparent marriage records...

Don't know if they had children, but there are two possible births in Milton, 1948 and 1949.

Also one in 1947, spelled Frizzle, so not so likely.

Not posting them here as they are probably still alive, but you can easily look them up on ScotlandsPeople.

:

Perhaps the 1945 marriage already suggested on page 3 was George's first marriage:

1945 FRIZZELL GEORGE ALEXANDER
STEWART MARTHA
MILTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/10 0033


EDIT:

Here's Martha's death:

1949 FRIZZELL MARTHA
Other surname: STEWART
F 29 MILTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/10 0030

So tonight some certificates landed from the GRO and I appear to have made some startling discoveries. Great Grandad Frank Henry Simms did in fact marry in March 8th 1914 at the age of 20 and his father is listed as HARRY SIMMS deceased profession Baker. So I can only assume that the previous thought that Frank Henry may have been illegitimate was unfounded???

I also recieved my grandad Harry Leonard Simms death certificate born 4th Dec 1914 died 20th July 1993.

A surprising find was my Grandfather George Alexander Lever Frizzell's marriage certificate which shows he married Emily Nelson on the 21st December 1951. He is listed as a widower.

Don't forget it the age listed on the census not the year of birth. Census is usually taken in spring so someone born Sept 1892 will still be 8 when the 1901 is taken therefore show as born approx 1893

I guess once the marriage certificate lands i'll get the details to solve this one.

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Household Information
Address 1 Ediths Village Regent St
Parish Holy Trinity and St Mary
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (East Riding)
Country England
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 15
Registration District Hull
Registration District Number 522
SubDistrict Number 2
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1911 Census for England & Wales
Collections from Great Britain
Person 1
First Name Ann
Last Name Simms
Birth Year 1851
Age 60
Where Born Carlton Yorks
Relationship To Head of Household Wife
Gender Female
Condition Married
Year Of Marriage
Years Of Marriage
Occupation
Military Info
Census Reference RG14PN28784 RG78PN1652 RD522 SD2 ED15 SN50
Archive Reference RG14
Folio
Page
Piece Number 28784
Person 2
First Name Frank Henry
Last Name Simms
Birth Year 1893
Age 18
Where Born Brials Warwick
Relationship To Head of Household Nephew
Gender Male
Condition Single
Year Of Marriage
Years Of Marriage
Occupation Shop Boy Furniture Dealer
Military Info
Census Reference RG14PN28784 RG78PN1652 RD522 SD2 ED15 SN50
Archive Reference RG14
Folio
Page
Piece Number 28784
Person 3
First Name George
Last Name Simms
Birth Year 1856
Age 55
Where Born Brials Warwick
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Gender Male
Condition Married
Year Of Marriage 1891
Years Of Marriage 20
Occupation Labourer General
Military Info
Census Reference RG14PN28784 RG78PN1652 RD522 SD2 ED15 SN50
Archive Reference RG14
Folio
Page
Piece Number 28784

Now that's confusing one record says he is born in 1892 and another 1893 and also different birth locations...two different Frank Henry Simms???

First Name Frank Henry
Last Name Simms
Birth Year 1893
Age 18
Where Born Brials Warwick
Relationship To Head of Household Nephew
Gender Male
Condition Single
Year Of Marriage
Years Of Marriage
Occupation Shop Boy Furniture Dealer
Military Info
Address 1 Ediths Village Regent St
Parish Holy Trinity and St Mary
County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (East Riding)
Country England
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 15
Registration District Hull
Registration District Number 522
SubDistrict Number 2
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1911 Census for England & Wales
Collections from Great Britain
Census Reference RG14PN28784 RG78PN1652 RD522 SD2 ED15 SN50
Archive Reference RG14
Folio
Page
Piece Number 28784

Yes I have ordered several certificates from the GRO, oddly only the ones I ordered from the Scottish Register and Irish Register have landed and these have been very informative and confirmed my maternal Scottish roots are in fact Irish.

I can only assume English certificates take much longer to be processed.

Mother's maiden name isn't listed on the registration until 1911. You'd be well advised to get Frank's marriage cert before you even think of doing any more. Hopefully this will give you a father's name and occupation then you can move on