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I still have one or two GRO certificates to surface from the Registry so they may offer further insights. Failing that I may put a few quid to one side for a professional genealogist to get to the bottom of this mystery.

Kerensky you're a long way from having to pay a pro.

°o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o° :-)

I do have Frank Henry Simms birth certificate on order so fingers crossed it delivers the information for his mum & dad.

The birth certificate for Frank Henry Simms yet to land but having done a search for the father listed on his wedding certificate this person seems to be the likely father-

England & Wales births 1837-2006
First Name HARRY
Last Name SIMMS
Birth Year 1862
Gender Male
Mother's Maiden Name
Year 1862
Country England
County Warwickshire
Event Quarter 2
District SHIPSTON ON STOUR
District Number
Volume 6D
Page 580
Entry Number
Line Number 114
DOR
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Collections from Great Britain

There's a father's name listed on my g g grandmother's marriage cert but she was base born.

If I were you, I'd wait for that birth cert

So I have-

Grandad George Frizzell marriage license 1951
Great Grandad Hugh Frizzell marriage license 1904
Great Great Great Grandad Hugh Frizzell marriage license 1859

So I appear to be missing-

Great Great Grandad James Frizzell married to Hessie Brown marriage license. I can't seem to locate it. Can anybody help? It should be logged in Greenock I think?

Ah scratch that last message, I spelt the name wrong which is why i couldn't find it. This is a great thread, I was able to back track through the info and see where I had gone wrong.

Kerensky,
Re your post of: 23 Sep at 23.32

If you return to my message of 15 Aug , you will find that James Frizzell married Hessie Brown in Greenock in 1884

Glasgowlass I did just that thank you and have now ordered the correct marriage license :-)

Kerensky,
When you say that you "ordered" the marriage cert, what do you mean?
I hope that you aren't paying £12 for it to be posted to you

This record is available to download directly from Scotlands People for 6 credits.
It costs £7 for 30 credits which, if used correctly will buy 5 certificates.

Available online at 6 credits each ( equates to £1.20)
All births before 1915
All marriages before 1939
All deaths before 1964

Records after these dates only need to be "ordered" or can be viewed in person at any of the 3 GRO offices in Scotland ( Edinburgh, Glasgow or Kilmarnock)

I'm still getting my head around this Glasgowlass so I did pay the £12 but that's OK as I do receive an official certificate. Regards Andrew

Ordering certs can be a very expensive form of purchase as the info contained on a download and that of an official cert is exactly the same

So finally a big piece of the Simms puzzle arrived today in the form of Frank Henry Simms birth certificate-

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/kornflakes77/DSC_0005_zpsrshnseup.jpg

So Frank Henry's father is not recorded as was originally suggested by other members of this forum, however by 1914 Frank Henry appears to have recorded his father as Harry. Did his mother Charlotte decide to tell him who the father was???

I don't think you'll ever know who Frank's father was. You could try to look for a bastardy bond but as Frank was brought up by his uncle, I suspect there's none.

I can find no trace of Charlotte after 1891 but..........

on the 1891 & 1901 census, Charlotte's father William has a grandson living with him.

Name: Henry Sims
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Brailes, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Brailes
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Brailes
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Shipston On Stour
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2486
Folio: 101
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
William Sims 61
Mary Sims 59
Henry Sims 5

I just wonder if he's another of Charlotte's sons. His birth is listed as Henri Simms just in case you decide to check this out.

Yes all very curious and thanks for the extra research °o.OOº°‘¨Claire in Wales¨‘°ºOO.o° .

So this was the only 'Harry Simms' listed and I have to say based on his age and location he seems the most likely candidate to have been the father. Of course there's actually no way to really know but it does seem quite likely Frank Henry Simms would have wanted to know who his father was and if Harry Simms a deceased baker appeared on his marriage license then in all likelihood I suspect there has to be a genuine connection albeit not substantiated by any other documentation.

England & Wales births 1837-2006
First Name HARRY
Last Name SIMMS
Birth Year 1862
Gender Male
Mother's Maiden Name
Year 1862
Country England
County Warwickshire
Event Quarter 2
District SHIPSTON ON STOUR
District Number
Volume 6D
Page 580
Entry Number
Line Number 114
DOR
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Collections from Great Britain
© brightsolid online publishing ltd

At any rate I suspect this concludes the male lineage research. I've ordered 1862 Harry Simms birth certificate although no way of knowing how or if it connects to Frank Henry Simms for sure.

Food for thought

Frank Henry was born 2 June 1892 therefore conceived around 5 moths after the 1881 census.

On the 1881 census, Charlotte was just down the road from her family, living with the Elliott family.

Also with the Elliott family is Francis Alfred Bloxman born 1875 and his father was a baker.

I just wonder if Francis could be the father but it would take Y chromosome testing to prove.

I'm revisiting this thread with interest. I've tried to obtain my grandfather's BC without success. Harry Leonard Simms and perhaps his marriage license to Stella Simms again unsuccessfully. Can any one point me to the relevant information?

Birth.

England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) HARRY L
Last name SIMMS
Birth year 1915
Birth quarter 1
Mother's last name ELIASEN
District HULL
County Yorkshire
Country England
Volume 9D
Page 574

Posted on Page 1 of this thread.

England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) HARRY L
Last name SIMMS
Birth year 1915
Birth quarter 1
Mother's last name ELIASEN
District HULL
County Yorkshire
Country England
Volume 9D
Page 574

Order from
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates - will cost £9.25

follow the instructions.

But you've ordered certificates before, so, are you having a problem for some reason?

The marriage is also on Page 1

You can ring the ordering service - info on the website above - if you are having problems which they will hopefully be able to sort out for you.

Hi greyghost, yes i've ordered before with mixed results :-/ I've decided to back track over this thread of which you and a couple of others have been so helpful and I have wrote to the GRO with a request for my grandfathers birth certificate.