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Gritty
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20 Aug 2015 11:57 |
? The entry is on freebmd-
the original index states James Wynn Williams- it is not a transcription error.
You can order the certificate from the GRO
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Susan
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19 Aug 2015 09:35 |
No marriage cert found at Newcastle, I think the wynn is in fact edwin ?
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Gritty
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18 Aug 2015 17:23 |
? now I'm confused!! :-)
Did you order this marriage certificate? name(s) JAMES WYNN WILLIAMS Marriage quarter 1 Marriage year 1886 MarriageFinder™ JAMES WYNN WILLIAMS married one of these people MARY ANN ROBINSON, ISABELLA JOHNSON District NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE County Northumberland Volume 10B Page 120
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greyghost
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18 Aug 2015 17:05 |
Another PM from Susan - have once agin asked her to return to the thread
Birth cert arrived today for Harriet Alice Williams 16/91882 no wonder I couldn't find her I have been looking for Harriet Frances cert shows James W Williams as father but that means very little Mother as Isabel Williams nee Johnson. Cant find any marriage cert to confirm wedding date. Found marriage cert for James McCann and Isabel Williams married 21/6/1893 stating she was widowed her fathers name is Murphy so she must have been married 3 times.
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greyghost
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12 Aug 2015 19:17 |
Also had a PM today from Susan, slightly different from yours Gritty
Just a quick update on the above gentleman. Have been in touch with Berwick regarding his marriage cert and Sheffield for his birth cert. His daughter Harrietts birth was not lodged in Newcastle although she was baptised in St Marys in Newcastle, im thinking that perhaps she was born somewhere else to someone else as it was sometime from her birth to her mother marrying James. I assumed because they were both hawkers they never stayed in one place long enough to registar on the census Regards Sue
My reply by PM-
Gritty posted a more likely marriage for him in Newcastle in 1886 and you do say above Harriett was born (c1883) some time before the marriage. Have you bought the Marriage certificate as suggested as it would name his father if a) he knew him or b) he didn’t make him up.
I suggested ?Eckington as his place of birth as the possible 1881 census had him as born Kington, Derbyshire. This is close enough to Sheffield for him to say that as a POB - people often seem to have said they were born somewhere that others would have heard of and accents were often misheard. Eckington would be Chesterfield RD. Unfortunately although birth reg. started Q3 1837, it was not until the mid 1870’s that there were penalties for not registering, so James may not have been registered.
How do you know that he married an Isabella Johnson if you don’t have the marriage certificate?
How have you arrived back at his name in the first place.
Hawker was often, but not always, indicative of gypsy families.
Harriet’s baptism only gives her mother’s name. no father is named so I think it’s odds on he wasn’t the father and that Harriet was illegitimate.
Susan, please come back to the thread, acknowledge the help you have already had and add your comments there instead of sending personal messages, you might get some more help. And please answer the questions posed there, they are designed to help us help you.
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Gritty
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12 Aug 2015 18:50 |
Have received a pm from Susan:
"Have enquired at Newcastle regarding this marriage and date it came back as no one of those names or dates registered. My quest takes me to Berwick will let you know outcome Regards Sue"
Hello Sue- it's easier if you can reply on the message board using the 'Add your reply' box at the bottom of the page.
If you're referring to the marriage below that I posted earlier, then you can order the marriage certificate from the GRO by putting in James Wynn Williams and using the Volume & Page numbers (Volume 10B Page 120):
The is the website for the gro: http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
First name(s) JAMES WYNN Last name WILLIAMS Marriage quarter 1 Marriage year 1886 MarriageFinder™ JAMES WYNN WILLIAMS married one of these people MARY ANN ROBINSON, ISABELLA JOHNSON District NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE County Northumberland Volume 10B Page 120
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Jacqueline
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31 Jul 2015 08:57 |
As previously advised, get a copy of the marriage cert...........and hope that he knew his father
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greyghost
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30 Jul 2015 23:08 |
????
Only James Williams attached to a unit based in Sheffield in 1871
1871 Worldwide British Army Index - British Army Other Ranks & locations
First name(s) James Last name Williams Service number 3085 Rank Sergeant Unit or Regiment 2nd Bn 14th (Buckinghamshire - The Prince of Wales's Own) Regiment of Foot HQ location Sheffield Notes Form or at the 1st Bn 14th Regt Depot Year 1871 Country Great Britain National Archives reference WO 12/3221 Period 01/04/1871-30/06/1871 Record set 1871 Worldwide British Army Index - British Army Other Ranks & locations Category Military, armed forces & conflict Subcategory Regimental & service records Collections from Great Britain
------------------------------------------- Which is this chap in 1861 going by the service number
1861 Worldwide Army Index Transcription First name James Last name Williams Service number 3085 Rank Corporal Unit or Regiment 1st Btn 14th Foot (Buckinghamshire) Regiment stationed at Jamaica Year 1861 National Archives reference WO12 / 3179 Category Military, armed forces & conflict Subcategory Regimental & service records Collections from Great Britain
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greyghost
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30 Jul 2015 22:36 |
The 1881 census says James is from Kington, Derbyshire. Am wondering if this is in fact Eckington, Derbyshire, which is about 8 miles SE of Sheffield, just about on the Derbys/Yorks border - probably why he says he is from Sheffield (a place that would have been heard of) but Derbyshire.
???????? Am Wondering if this could be him in 1871 - Image shows him as a Soldier but unfortunately gives no service number or regiment
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census First name(s) James Last name Williams Relationship Head Marital status - Gender Male Age 34 Birth year 1837 Occupation - Birth town - <<<<<<<<<<< not transcribed but Image has Sheffield Birth county Yorkshire Birth county as transcribed YORKSHIRE Birth place England House name - Street Sheffield Barracks Parish Hallam, Nether Town Sheffield City Sheffield County Yorkshire, Yorkshire (West Riding) Country England Registration district Ecclesall Bierlow Archive reference RG10 Piece number 4665 Folio 116 Page 19
Image shows him with Wife - Mary Williams age 29 also born Sheffield
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Cynthia
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30 Jul 2015 19:17 |
I'll remind Susan of how to find her replies :-)
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LondonBelle
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30 Jul 2015 17:52 |
Good find, safc....still can't find Harriet though on the BMD Index
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Gritty
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30 Jul 2015 17:36 |
Ooh, nice find safc :-)
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safc
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30 Jul 2015 12:57 |
Name: Harriet Francesca Johnson Gender: Female Christening Date: 27 Sep 1882 Christening Place: St. Mary's Clayton Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England Birth Date: Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Isabellae Johnson Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I05214-2 System Origin: England-EASy GS Film number: 1936949 Reference ID: item 3-4 p 410
Citing this Record: "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NT5N-WR8 : accessed 30 July 2015), Harriet Francesca Johnson, 27 Sep 1882; citing Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England, reference item 3-4 p 410; FHL microfilm 1,936,949.
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safc
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30 Jul 2015 11:32 |
????
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Blue Bell, Brampton, Cumberland, England
Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Thomas D Parker Head Married Male 41 1840 Innkeeper Brampton, Cumberland, England Transcription Sarah Parker Wife Married Female 38 1843 - Moss Side, Cumberland, England Transcription Mary T I Parker Daughter Single Female 14 1867 - Oakbank, Cumberland, England Transcription Joseph Parker Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Oulton, Cumberland, England Transcription Jane Ann Parker Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Cumberland, England Transcription John Parker Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Cumberland, England Transcription Sarah H Parker Daughter Single Female 3 1878 - Brampton, Cumberland, England Transcription Betsy G Parker Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Brampton, Cumberland, England Transcription John Dalton Visitor Married Male 37 1844 Grocer Yorkshire, England Transcription James Williams Visitor Single Male 42 1839 Labourer General Kington, Derbyshire, England
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Gritty
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30 Jul 2015 11:28 |
Deaths: Name: Harriet F Summerbell Birth Date: abt 1883 Date of Registration: Mar 1967 Age at Death: 84 Registration district: Gateshead Inferred County: Durham Volume: 1a Page: 848
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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30 Jul 2015 11:15 |
Deaths Jun 1955 SUMMERBELL Alexander 78 Newcastle T. 1b 65
Not seeing a death for Harriet/t. or Frances Summerbell
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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30 Jul 2015 10:24 |
???? 1881 census 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 35, Liverpool Court, Newcastle upon Tyne St Andrew, Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Learn more
Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Isabella Wilson Head Widow Female 43 1838 Laundress Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Transcription Mary Wilson Daughter Single Female 21 1860 Laundress Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Transcription James Wilson Son Single Male 16 1865 Miller (Corn) Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Transcription Susan Wilson Daughter Single Female 12 1869 Milk Girl (Seller) Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Transcription John Wilson Son Single Male 2 1879 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Transcription Margaret Wilson Daughter Single Female 3 1878 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Transcription
Isabella Johnson Boarder Widow Female 36 1845 Potato Seller (Greengrocer) Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England>>>>>
Elizabeth Angus Boarder Married Female 21 1860 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Transcription Thomas Angus Boarder Single Male 0
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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30 Jul 2015 10:20 |
Looks interesting Gritty
So looks like Harriett was born before they married
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Gritty
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30 Jul 2015 10:05 |
No idea if connected:
England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription
First name(s) JAMES WYNN Last name WILLIAMS Marriage quarter 1 Marriage year 1886 MarriageFinder™ JAMES WYNN WILLIAMS married one of these people MARY ANN ROBINSON, ISABELLA JOHNSON District NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE County Northumberland Volume 10B Page 120
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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30 Jul 2015 08:29 |
Not seeing them on the 1881 census :-(
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