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Until you find proof, you can't say that Margaret was Elizabeth's mother

In fact, as it appears that James had a wife Elizabeth, it's far more likely that she was the mother

When you get the 1848 birth cert..........come back with the facts, and we'll go from there

The relationship of daughter is to the head, I.e. James and does not mean Margaret is her mother.

Jude

It's possible .. I'll check it out. Thanks again.

Yep, that gap really bothers me ... very unusual for back then. If indeed the Thomas b. 1835, and Ann b. 1837, found by Jacqueline, are siblings of my Thomas, then James could've been married to Elizabeth first ... but Elizabeth b. 1840 is shown as a daughter to James and Margaret.

it was that elizabeth born 1840 you say parents james and margaret it seems a big gap between elizabeth and thomas born 1849 so james could have been with elizabeth who died in 1842 before he married margaret

It could be, but I don't know that that Thomas is mine. My Thomas, as far as we can tell, has parents James and Margaret.

could this be the death of elizabeth mother of thomas born 1835



Elizabeth Dennett
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name: Elizabeth Dennett
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1842
Registration District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Event Place: Prescot, Lancashire, England

Thanks malyon. This birth gives the father as Isaac and the father of Elizabeth in the 1851 census is shown as James and James' two children, Elizabeth (1840) and Thomas (1849) were both born in Liverpool. This baptism was in St. Helens. There has to be another birth but like you I can only find the one above.

this is the only birth for a elizabeth dennett in 1840 with mother margaret

Elizabeth Dennett
England Births and Christenings
Name: Elizabeth Dennett
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 04 Oct 1840
Christening Place: St.Thomas Eccleston, (near Prescot), Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Isaac Dennett
Mother's Name: Margaret

I like the baptism in 1848 ... the birth certificate I've sent for for Thomas is the Sept qtr of 1848. Also, if the earlier baptism in 1835 is correct and the child died then the big gap to Thomas (1848) would make more sense, especially if the Ann Dennett in 1851 census is a sibling - she would've been born abt 1837.

What's also interesting is that Thomas' daughter, Louisa, married a Matthew Fairclough - it was her third marriage.

T

Looks like Thomas named a couple of children James & Margaret too

Name: Thomas Dennett
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: St Helens
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3022
Folio: 60
Page Number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Dennett 41
James Dennett 17
Margaret Dennett 15

??????????
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Copperas Hill, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Henry Holland Head Married Male 23 1828 Tobacconist Hackthorn, Leicestershire, England Transcription
Susanah Holland Wife Married Female 28 1823 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Sarah Meek Mother Widow Female 52 1799 Milliner Hackthorn, Leicestershire, England Transcription
Ann Hughes Lodger Unmarried Female 21 1830 Dress Maker Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
Ann Dennett Servant Unmarried Female 14 1837 Housemaid Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Posting 1851, as it keeps being mentioned

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Chapel Lane, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Dennett Head Married Male 49 1802 Journey Man Clock Maker St Helens, Lancashire, England Transcription
Margaret Dennett Wife Married Female 42 1809 - St Helens, Lancashire, England Transcription
Elizabeth Dennett Daughter - Female 11 1840 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
Thomas Dennett Son - Male 2 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

No way of knowing who Elizabeth's mother is/was............and there's a heck of a gap to Thomas if they did have the same mother

The child baptised in 1835 could have died................it was common practice to name a child after a deceased sibling

Saying to the enumerator that Margaret was his wife does not prove that they were married

Only a cert would prove they were married....................as with ANY couple.

Golden rule of FH.............never assume ;-)

I'm going to throw this baptism in.....it might be nothing...but think it's worth adding for elimination if nothing else

Name: Thomas Dennett
Birth Date: 22 Aug 1848
Baptism Date: 6 Sep 1848
Parish: St Patrick, Lancashire, England
Father's name: James Dennett
Mother's name: Margaret Fairclough

Ancestry Liverpool Catholic Baptisms

This is getting really confusing. The baptism given by safc looks good, except that everything I have shows Thomas' birth as 1849/50. His marriage certificate for 1868 gives his age as 19, and in the 1871 & 1881 census his birth is shown as 1849 and 1850 in the 1891 census. I can't find a Thomas born in 1835 to James and Elizabeth in 1841 census.
I've sent off for a birth certificate that I think might be his (Sep 1848, W. Derby, 20/950) so hopefully it's the correct one and I can find his mother's maiden name.

The James in the 1841 census is married to Elizabeth, the one in 1851 census is married to Margaret. James and Margaret had Elizabeth in 1840 and Thomas in 1849. It gives James' birth date as 1802 and Margaret as 1809 ... to me that seems old to have their first child in those days. I suppose James could've been married before to the Elizabeth in the 1841 census but I can't find a marriage to Margaret.

Still thinking.

ellen bolton in 1861 census

Ellen Bolton
England and Wales Census, 1861
Name: Ellen Bolton
County: Lancashire
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1861
Sub-District: 6 St Helens
Parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas
Registration District: Prescot
Age: 79
Gender: Female
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birthplace: Prescot, Lancashire
Schedule Type: Household

Baptism: 8 Sep 1835 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Dennett - [Child] of James Dennett & Elizabeth
Abode: Bolton St
Occupation: Clock Maker
Baptised by: Thos. Halton Curate
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1836, Page 20, Entry 158
Source: LDS Film 1656421 (and 1656422)

Posting for birthplace info

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9, Russell Street, Eccleston, Prescot, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Richard Bolton Head Married Male 79 1782 Fish Dealer Broxton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Ellen Bolton Wife Married Female 79 1782 At Glass Works Prescot, Lancashire, England Transcription
Thomas Dennet Grandson Unmarried Male 12 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England