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James was a Clock maker on Thomas's marriage cert

James is also not "deceased" in 1866 when Elizabeth married.

Elizabeth was stated to be aged 23 in 1866.

That's assuming this is the correct marriage - though maybe not, as this James is a labourer, not a clockmaker:

Elizabeth Dennett
in the Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1935
Name: Elizabeth Dennett
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 23
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1843
Marriage Date: 1 Jan 1866
Marriage Place: Toxteth Park, St John the Baptist, Lancashire, England
Father: James Dennett [ labourer ]
Spouse: Thomas Holland [ porter ]

Possibly too old

DENNETT, ELIZABETH 39
GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 303

Name: Elizabeth Dennett
Gender: Female
Age: 39
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1805
Death Date: 14 Mar 1844
Burial Date: 17 Mar 1844
Address; Pinnington Street..........................YES, see 1841, below
Cause of death: Dropsy

Pinington Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

James Dennet Male 35 1806 Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Dennet Female 30 1811 Lancashire, England
Ann Dennet Female 3 1838 Lancashire, England

Not sure it it has any significance, but James was not said to be 'deceased' when son Thomas married in 1868. Could be simply a product of the way the question was posed

Margaret's baptism was posted on page two

If only James's info was as accessible!

More siblings of Margaret?

Peter Fairclough
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Peter Fairclough
Baptism Date: 21 Apr 1816
Parish: Prescot, St Helens, Lancashire, England
Father: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Hardsheigh ]
Mother: Ellen Fairclough
Register Type: Parish Registers
Reference Number: Pr 2923/1/3


Windle contained the Hardshaw (or antiquated Hardsheigh), described as a berewick in the Domesday Book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_St_Helens,_Merseyside


Elizabeth Fairclough
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Elizabeth Fairclough
Baptism Date: 4 Feb 1821
Parish: St Helen's, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Hardsheigh ]
Mother: Ellen Fairclough
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drl 2/400


John Fairclough
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: John Fairclough
Baptism Date: 20 Sep 1818
Parish: St Helen's, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Hardsheigh ]
Mother: Ellen Fairclough
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drl 2/400


Thomas Fairclough
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Thomas Fairclough
Baptism Date: 19 Mar 1826
Parish: St Helen's, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Handshaw ]
Mother: Ellen Fairclough
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number: Drl 2/400

No help with James - but just random musings about Margaret Fairclough:

Hopefully not leaping to unfounded conclusions!


In 1861 the child Thomas (1848,mmn Fairclough) is with his grandparents Richard and Ellen Bolton - census already posted.


I don't know if the Mary Ann Fairclough in 1851 below is related to the Boltons (grand-child ??), or just another unrelated lodger in the household:

Richard Bolton
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Richard Bolton
Age: 73
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1778
Relation: Lodger
Spouse's Name: Ellen Bolton
Gender: Male
Where born: Warrington, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Eccleston
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 97 Liverpool Road
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Prescot
Sub-registration District: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 219
Piece: 2195
Folio: 142
Page Number: 80
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Baxter 26
Jane Baxter 3
Mary Baxter 1
Richard Bridge 24
Margret Bridge 20
Alice Bridge 1
John Corn 40
Jane Corn 36
John Corn 10
Elizabeth Corn 2
Richard Bolton 73 - lodger <<<<<<<<<<<
Ellen Bolton 72 - lodger's wife <<<<<<<<<<<
Mary Ann Fairlough 21 - lodger , Windle <<<<<<<<<<<
John Joseph Fairlough 7 M - lodger <<<<<<<<<<<<<


That Mary Ann married William Tulip in Prescot in May 1851, without naming a father on her marriage cert.


??
Mary Ann Fairclough
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name: Mary Ann Fairclough
Baptism Date: 30 May 1830
Parish: Prescot, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Windle ]
Mother: Margaret Fairclough
Register Type: Parish Registers
Reference Number: PR 3404/1/12



Back to Margaret -

Margaret Fairclough
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Margaret Fairclough
Sex: Female
Christening Date: 13 Aug 1809
Christening Place: St Helens, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Christening Place (Original): St. Helens, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Windle ]
Father's Sex: Male
Mother's Name: Ellen <<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's Sex: Female


Baptism of James junior, brother of Margaret ? Father of Mary Ann???

James Fairclough
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: James Fairclough
Sex: Male
Christening Date: 22 Aug 1813
Christening Place: St Helens, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Christening Place (Original): St. Helens, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Windle ]
Father's Sex: Male
Mother's Name: Ellen
Mother's Sex: Female


Another sibling:

Ellen Fairclough
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials,1538-1812
Name: Ellen Fairclough
Birth Date: 9 Aug
Baptism Date: 1 Sep 1811
Parish: Prescot, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View this parish
Father's Name: James Fairclough [ blacksmith, Windle ]
Mother's Name: Ellen Fairclough
Register Type: Parish Register


It would be convenient to think that Richard Bolton may have been Ellen's second husband - though I'm not seeing either that marriage, nor one to James Fairclough.

Posting as a suggestion for further investigation

Name: Helen Dennett
Registration Year: 1844
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 609
Records on Page:
Name
Helen Dennett
George Eastburn

Name: Helen Eastburn
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George Eastburn
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Windle
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: Prescot
Sub-registration District: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 4b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 188
Piece: 2195
Folio: 543
Page Number: 60
Household Members:
Name Age
George Eastburn 34
Helen Eastburn 37
Joseph Eastburn 5
Mary Ann Eastburn 2
James Eastburn 1 Mo
Catharine Holmes 15

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Market Street, Prescot, Lancashire, England

James Dennett Male 60 1781 Lancashire, England........Clock Maker
Isabella Dennett Female 70 1771 Lancashire, England
Ellen Dennett Female 20 1821 Lancashire, England



DENNETT, ISABELLA 81
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 1155

DENNETT, JAMES 67
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 701

Your James was alive in 1859

Name: James Dennett
Criminal Admission Age: 57
Record Type: Register
Birth Date: abt 1802
Occupation: Clock Maker
Criminal Charge: Stealing
Sentence: 4 mos
Criminal Admission Date: 6 May 1859
Jail: Liverpool Gaol
Source Description: Liverpool Gaol, Lancashire: Calendars of Trials At Liverpool Borough Sessions

Stole two shirts

Someone suggested a possible relevance for this back in 2015 - did you ever follow-up on it?

Marriage: 9 Jul 1797 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
James Dennett - Clock maker, Bachelor, Of this Parish
Isabella Williams - Spinster, Of this Parish
Witness: John Alcock; Peter Birchall
Married by Banns by: Mathew Robinson Minister
Register: Marriages 1793 - 1812, Page 33, Entry 99
Source: LDS Film 1657567

James didn’t, as far as can be determined, marry Margaret

Ignore Ancestry trees - all too often, they are works of fiction.

Thanks Erika.
My direct proven ancestor is Thomas Dennett, b. 1848, parents James Dennett and Margaret Fairclough. I was hoping to find information on his father James but it got complicated when James seems to have been married twice.

The reason I looked for a birth for Ann, shown in 1841 census as 3 years old, is that I thought she might just be at the beginning of the registrations. The birth I found is in the December quarter of 1837 and shows the mmn as White.

In my search I found a couple of trees on Ancestry that gave James first wife as Elizabeth Worth, so I sent for the marriage certificate but I'm pretty convinced it's not the right one. On this marriage certificate James is shown as a widower, living in Widnes and working as a wire drawer, whereas my James consistently shows up as a clockmaker.

Sorry for the late reply.

It would be a good idea to edit your title to show you've re-opened this enquiry, or people will wonder why there are new posts on a thread marked 'answered'

???

Name: Margaret Fairclough
Birth Date: 3 Aug 1809
Baptism Date: 13 Aug 1809
Parish: Prescot, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: James Fairclough
Mother's Name: Ellen Fairclough

Elizabeth age 11 in 1851 was born well before the two births you've looked at.

Make a note of the date on which the census was taken, and calculate from there

??.posted before, but putting into context with civil reg'n

Name: Thomas Dennett
Age: 0
Birth Date: 22 Aug 1848
Baptism Date: 6 Sep 1848
Baptism Place: St Patrick, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: James Dennett
Mother: Margaret Fairclough

Godparent surname: Cummins

Unfortunately, the RC records don't include address or father's occupation

DENNETT, THOMAS (MMN) FAIRCLOUGH
GRO Reference: 1848 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 20 Page 950

Would show on 1851 as born c1849........do the maths ;-) ;-)

As there were no penalties for not registering births until 1875, it’s quite likely that the births weren’t registered

What are you trying to prove?

As Ann was 14 on 1851 census, her birth would have been BEFORE registration was introduced on July 1st 1837

Which person is your PROVEN ancestor?

This part of the family has been on the back burner and I've finally got round to having another go at it - it's so confusing and that's why I'm adding it onto my previous thread.

In 1841 census James is with Elizabeth with daughter Ann. You will see previously there was another child, Thomas, b. 1835 and died 1939, age 4.

In 1851 census Ann is working as a servant in Liverpool, age 14, and James is now with Margaret with children Elizabeth and Thomas. Looked for birth for Ann and found two, Dec 1837 in Liverpool, mmn White, and Sep 1837 in W. Derby, mmn Knowles. I have the birth certificate for Thomas which gives him born 22 August 1848 in St. Helens, mother Margaret Fairclough. Tried searching for Elizabeth b. 1840, found two - Dec 1840, Prescot, mmn Playthian, and Sept 1841, Prescot, mmn Higginson. Further search found Elizabeth with mmn Higginson, was daughter of Thomas and Margaret Dennett, so not mine).

None of these mmn match up. Any suggestions?

Yes, I think it's all speculation until I get that birth certificate.

Thanks.

Do you know whether the family have any Catholic background?

If they were Catholics that might account for the lack of BMDs for them as there aren't that many Catholic parish records transcribed outside the big cities also the fact that it wasn't compulsory to register BMD until 1875 could be another factor.