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First name(s) Hamilton
Last name Hervey
Birth year 1831
Death year 1832
Burial date 18 Feb 1832
Age at death 14 Months
Residence Chorlton Row
Place Chorlton-upon-Medlock, Manchester
Grave number 1413
Running number 12419
County Lancashire
Source Rusholme Road Cemetery Burial Registers
Date range 1821-1933
Film 2355265, 2355266

I don't know whether I should start another thread or change the title of the one that is open about Isabel?
Clever Jacqueline has apparently unearthed a hitherto unknown child who would also be another brother to Isabel, etc. HAMILTON HERVEY [see above, born in Wigan in 1830, i.e., right place, right parents] has never appeared in any of our family records and annoyingly in the original baptism records on Ancestry his father's occupation is left blank!! Rats.
It is a tradition in our family that the mother's/wife's maiden name is handed down through the generations and often appears as a first or middle name, i.e., my great uncle's first name was Hamilton, my great aunt's middle name was Hamilton, etc., etc. So it is not at all unusual for this child to be named after his mother's maiden name. But who is he??? I cannot find a death for him as a child and he doesn't appear in any census entries.
Advice on this one, please, from the experts.
:-)

All of this is correct and well done! We have so many letters, diaries, journals, photographs, hand drawn family trees, etc., etc. and they all make life so much easier when doing family history. But nevertheless there have been many surprises and some revelations, too ................

I'll still keep looking and hoping.
;-)

Yes, your researcher's hunch was right to question me! At least I have now been able to sort out my own records and yet again in my research I have found that the monumental mason has recorded the details incorrectly on a headstone.

I don't think that the sisters would have travelled together. If you look at the dates of Rosamond's marriage in May and the date of little Archie's death in September of the same year, I wonder whether Isabel travelled out to India to be at the wedding of her sister to HBH. And then perhaps stayed on out there before embarking on their epic journey around the Continent??

I guess we shall never know .............

But thank you to everyone. If you get a brainwave, I'll keep this open and revisit it to see if there's any more feedback. ;-)

These records show that they were...........

First name(s) ROBERT KIBBLE
Last name HERVEY
Title -
Year 1904
Day 1
Month 12
Place TEMPLE
Country England
Event role DEATH
Volume 97
Folio 47
Folio suffix -
Entry number 218
Column 3
Record set GWR Shareholders
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Wills & probate
Collections from Great Britain
copyright Society of Genealogists


All the names under this entry
First name(s) Last name Year Place Event role Column
ARTHUR CHARLES DAVIDSON 1905 - DECLARATION 5 Image Transcription
ANDREW BLAKE 1905 - EXEC 5 Image Transcription
MARY BEATRICE HERVEY 1905 - EXEC 5 Image Transcription
HENRY BATHURST HANNA 1905 PETERSFIELD EXEC 7 Image Transcription
WALTER HERVEY BESANT 1905 NORWICH EXEC 7 Image Transcription



Baptism: 22 Oct 1866 St Clement, Chorlton-cum-Hardy, Lancashire, England
Hamilton Law Hervey - son of Robert Kibble Hervey & Mary Clayton (formerly Law)
Born: 24 Mar 1865
Abode: Harrow Road London
Occupation: Barrister at Law
Parent's Marriage: Bowdon 1864
Baptised by: J. E. Booth
Register: Baptisms 1862 - 1886, Page 13, Entry 97
Source: LDS Film 1408887

Sorry, Nicola, the last posts don't solve your problem, but I've been looking for anything for the Herveys, in the hope of finding a clue

I don't subscribe to Ancestry, so can't look for incoming records, although I'm sure they'd have been found by now if they exist

I'm guessing you've got these already, but, just in case.

Baptism: 14 Apr 1834 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Isabel Matley Hervey - Daughter of Robert Hervey & Jane
Abode: Stony Knolls
Occupation: Drysalter
Baptised by: H. Fielding
Register: Baptisms 1834, Page 202, Entry 1613
Source: LDS Film 2357018
Baptism: 20 Apr 1837 St Ann, Manchester, Lancashire, England

Violet Milroy Hervey - [Child] of Robert Hervey & Jane
Abode: Broughton
Occupation: Drysalter
Baptised by: Jereh. Smith
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1849, Page 168, Entry 1341
Source: LDS Film 919408



Are these older brothers of the three girls?

Baptism: 4 Sep 1829 St Thomas, Ardwick, Lancashire, England
Robert Kibble Hervey - Son of Robert Hervey & Jane
Abode: Douglas Bank Wigan
Occupation: Merchant
Baptised by: N. W. Gibson Curate
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1844, Page 105, Entry 840
Source: LDS Film 2148094
Baptism: 2 May 1831 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England

Hamnilton Hervey - 2 Son of Robert Hervey & Jane
Born: 25 Nov 1830
Abode: Duglas Bank
Baptised by: S. Mossop
Register: Baptisms 1830 - 1833, Page 64, Entry 505
Source: LDS Film 1885678

First name(s) ARCHDALE
Last name EARLE
Marriage year 1888
Marriage date 17 Aug 1888
Spouse's first name VIOLET MAY
Spouse's last name BESANT
Bride's marital status Single
County Cheshire
Country England
Record set Cheshire Marriage licence bonds and allegations 1606-1905
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

A good job I asked about the journal ;-)


So..............back to square one, and an outward journey which will not be found on line

It would seem logical that the sisters travelled together, although you may never know.

I find it strange that such a detailed journal does not have dates of the events, and no mention of the voyage

Thank you Jacqueline.
Yes, the journal is very detailed indeed and mentions many family names who she visited in India on her tour and who we know to be there at the time. The most significant entry which pinpoints the year of the journal to within a year or two is where she writes that 'there will be no news of poor little Archie to relay to his dear grandmother' when she visited dead Archie's parents Archdale and Violet Earle. Archie's death is recorded on his grandmother's headstone in a churchyard not far from where we live and he died in Kerseong, Burma.
OH DEAR, I AM GOING TO HAVE TO EDIT THIS THREAD AGAIN - I have just spotted that the headstone records little Archie's death in 1899 but the record from Kerseong Cemetery, Darjeeling records his birth on 6th September 1889 and that he died three days later.
Until now, I hadn't spotted this discrepancy in my records and now this has thrown out the Indian Journal dates for Isabel which I am searching for. Archie's parents were married in August 1888 and so it is much more likely that the birthdate for Archie is September of the following year in 1889. And that is why Isabel writes so poignantly in her journal about him - this makes me think that her trip was probably around late 1889/early 1890.
I am going to edit my post now and thank you to JoonieCloonie for telling me that this was possible!
Does any of this help in the search?? :-)

Rosamond obviously travelled out too soon for the online records

There is no record on FMP of any sailing for anyone named Isabel to India who could possibly be your relation

How detailed is the journal?

Has its veracity been tested?

First name(s) H B
Last name HANNA
Title MR
Gender Male
Marital status S
Departure year 1892
Departure day 19
Departure month 5
Departure port LIVERPOOL
Destination port NEW YORK
Destination NEW YORK
Country United States
Destination country United States
Ship name ETRURIA
Ship master's last name HAINS
Ship master's title CAPT
City LIVERPOOL
Ship destination port NEW YORK
Ship destination country USA
Ship square feet 15670
Ship registered tonnage 3689
Number of passengers 782
Record set Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960



First name(s) H B
Last name HANNA
Title MR
Gender Male
Marital status S
Departure year 1910
Departure day 13
Departure month 10
Departure port LONDON
Destination port BOMBAY
Destination BOMBAY
Country INDIA
Destination country INDIA
Ship name MARMORA
Ship official number 116011
Ship master's first name G H C
Ship master's last name WESTON
Shipping line PENINSULAR & ORIENTAL STEAM NAVIGATION CO
City LONDON
Ship destination port BOMBAY

That's a funny one. He's not a direct relation and so I won't be pursuing why he was travelling to the US, but I guess it was to visit emigrated British family . . .

But where is our Isabel?? She obviously sailed out to India at least once and came back!! She never married so her surname remained the same HERVEY. :-)

Name: Henry B Hanna (Colonel)
Birth Date: abt 1839
Age: 53
Port of Departure: Boston, Massachusetts, United States
Arrival Date: 28 Jun 1892
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Pavonia

but no Mrs ...

And, yes, that is her as yet unmarried sister Rosamond on the Electoral Rolls for Dunham Massey. They lived together in a very beautiful house called Barley Grange and the current owners have very kindly let us look around the house.

Well done! And he is HENRY BATHURST HANNA [Colonel, Indian Army]. I had found their marriage record among the collection at the British Library after unearthing an old family scribble which said that they had been married out in India in the beautiful area of Naini Tal. But I also have not been able to find him/her/them sailing home after their marriage in 1889 [he retired two weeks before they married and they settled in Petersfield, Hants together with Isabel and also an unmarried woman neice and later another one, too.................
I am still hoping that Isabel's sailings to and from India in connection with our journal will be found by someone, please.

http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_detail.php?id=1861159

Groom Surname Hanna
Groom First Names H. B.
Bride Surname Hervey
Bride First Name Rosamund
Place Naini Tal
Year 1889
Month May
Day 26
Exact Entry Hanna ? Hervey ? May 26, at Naini Tal, Colonel H. B. Hanna, S.C., to Rosamund, youngest daughter of the late R. Hervey, Esq., of Collar House, Prestbury.
Edition Year 1889
Edition Date 28-Jun

great, 'H B'

when, where and whom did Rosamund marry?

women are so often shown in passenger lists as only 'Miss' or 'Mrs' that it might not be possible to identify Rosamund, but knowing her husband's initial could help

I don't see a marriage at freebmd or familysearch

Rosamund aged 42 and still unmarried is living with sister Isabel in the 1881 census? and possibly on the electoral roll in 1890-91?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1BB-SZ2
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NMS6-L6Y

Thank you all. I'm back in the land of the living again. Can anyone see my gal, please? Or it has occurred to me that perhaps she travelled with her married sister ROSAMOND HANNA??
Standing by ..........

Thank you JoonieCloonie for your guidance. I've done the editing for the date in my opening post.
Early start in the morning - will be back to this tomorrow pm.
Tvm all.