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(yes Keith, sorry, lol us Chris folks causing confusion!)

Was going by the 1891 John Duffy, as matching the Marriage address from Chris's find on Ancestry, noting also a witness.

Chris :)

(below also on London Marriages, Ancestry. Father, Thomas Duffy, Umbrella Maker. Pott Street, Bethnal Green. Mary as Spinster. Age, Minor)

Marriages Jun 1867 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DUFFY Mary Bethnal Green 1c 680
TAYLOR William Robert Bethnal Green 1c 680


1861 (Find My Past)
Thomas Duffey Head Married Male 41 1820 Umbrella Maker Manchester, Lancashire, England
Frances Duffey Wife Married Female 38 1823 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Robert Duffey Son - Male 17 1844 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary Duffey Daughter - Female 12 1849 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Duffey Daughter - Female 10 1851 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Johnanna Duffey Daughter - Female 8 1853 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Emma Duffey Daughter - Female 6 1855 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
House number 46
Street Hare Street
Parish Bethnal Green
County London, Middlesex
Parliamentary borough Tower Hamlets
Ecclesiastical district St Matthew
Registration district Bethnal Green
Piece number 261
Folio number 62
Page number 39

Hi Chris!

For the C1891 John & Mary Duffy, this looks like (!) it might be Mary Duffy / Taylor / Peake's brother. Is that your take on it too?

"above for 32, also 1901 as China & Glass Dealer"

I don't understand the "above for 32" bit.

"who do you have as the parents of Thomas Edward George Peake born c1851"

No-one yet. I've ordered his birth certificate but I couldn't find a FreeBMD entry for him so I provided the birth date as far as I know it - 9 December 1851.

Thank you again (and again ) for the 1871 & 1881 census extracts. You're right, it does look like the same family, however it gives "my" Margaret as born 1851, and son Thomas and daughter Margaret are closer - I have either 4 or 8 years between them depending on your choice of 1881 or 1885 for Margaret's birth.

Confusing!

Keith

No Keith, I found the marriage on Ancestry.

Please can I ask, who do you have as the parents of Thomas Edward George Peake born c1851?


I think that this could be him in 1881

Name: Thomas Peake
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relationship to Head: Son (Child)
Father: Thomas Peake
Mother: Mary A. Peake
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 6 Homerton Row
Education:

Employment status:

Subscribe now to see this information.
Occupation: Carpenter
Registration district: Hackney
Sub registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 307
Folio: 35
Page Number: 64
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Peake 55
Mary A. Peake 49
Thomas Peake 29
Emily Peake 19



If you look at the street address it shows Homerton and the 1901 census which you posted it also records Homerton as Thomas Peakes birth town


This looks like the same family in the 1871 census

ame:
Thomas Peake
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1871
Gender:
Male
Age:
19
Relationship to Head of Household:
Son
Birthplace:
Hackney, Middlesex
Schedule Type:
Household
Registration District:
Hackney
Sub-District:
Hackney
Parish:
St John Hackney
County:
London, Middlesex
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Peake Self M 46 Oxfordshire
Mary A Peake Wife F 42 Islington, Middlesex
Margeret Peake Daughter F 20 Hackney, Middlesex
Thomas Peake Son M 19 Hackney, Middlesex
Josh Peake Son M 16 Hackney, Middlesex
Emily Peake Daughter F 12 Hackney, Middlesex

1891 (Find My Past)
John Duffy Head Married Male 40 1851 General Dealer (Shop) Manchester
Mary Duffy Wife Married Female 50 1841 - Farnham, Surrey, England
Louisa Hill Daughter Single Female 22 1869 - Islington, Middlesex, England
Harriett Duffy Daughter Single Female 16 1875 - Islington, Middlesex, England
Ada Duffy Daughter - Female 2 1889 Scholar Islington, Middlesex, England
Street Newington Green Road (32)
Parish Islington
County London
Registration district Islington
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 176
Folio 112
Page 9

(above for 32, also 1901 as China & Glass Dealer)

Chris :)

Brilliant, Chris, thank you very much for finding this. Was this also in FMP?

Further circumstantial evidence that Margaret's birth was 1885 rather than 1881.

Keith

Marriage details:

Place: St Jude's Islington
Date: 14th April 1884
Groom: Thomas Edward George Peake, Bachelor, of full age occ: Joiner
Bride: Mary Taylor, Widow, of full age
(Both living at 32 Lewington Green Road)
Groom's father: Deceased
Bride's father: Thomas Duffy occ: Umbrella Maker
Both bride and groom signed their names
Witnesses: John Duffy and Sarah Smith

Thanks Chris!
I found that too, although your version has more details. I have ordered Thomas the younger's birth certificate too. That way I should have two shots at getting information on Thomas senior.
Keith

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Thomas Edward George
Last name Peake
Age 24
Marriage year 1913
Marriage date 22 Mar 1913
Marriage place Canning-Town, Essex, England
Father's first name(s) Thomas Edward George
Father's last name Peake
Spouse's first name(s) Florence Sarah
Spouse's last name Naylor
Spouse's birth year 1893
Spouse's birth date 1893
Spouse's father's first name(s) Joshua
Spouse's father's last name Naylor
Residence Canning-Town, Essex, England
Place Canning-Town
County Essex

(if relating, apologies if already added!)

Chris :)

Thanks for a adding a fresh aspect to this, Christina. I don't know when she became a nurse, I'd always imagined it was war related, but you're right this was pre-war.

And you're right about the 1861 census, a silly error on my part, I spotted it after I'd pressed the button ... .

Keith

You mention that your grandmother was a nurse.

Taken from "England's First State Hospitals" In 1892 the minimum age for a nurse was fixed at 22 years old.

I wonder if this is why Margaret added a few years to her age?

Hi Keith, I'm sure the 1901 and 1891 censuses, with Margaret b.1884 and 1885 are the correct ones. They're really the only ones that tie in with Thomas Edward George Peake marrying in 1884.

You've hit a blind spot with the 1861 census. :-) If Margaret was 10 in 1861, she would have been born in 1851- not 1881.

Yes, Jacqueline, and I will order the birth certificate for the one birth we have been able to find, 1885.

That still leaves me with a puzzle with eg this C1901 entry in which both father's and daughter's birth years are slightly out of step:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Household Information
Street Virginia Road
Parish Bethnal Green
Town
City
County London
Country England
Ecclesiastical District St Pauls
Enumeration District 19
Municipal Ward West Bethnal Green
Parliamentary Borough South West Bethnal Green
Registration District Bethnal Green
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain
Person 1
First Name Margaret
Last Name Peake
Birth Year 1884
Age 17
Birth Town Bethnal Green
Birth County Middlesex
Birth Place England
Relationship To Head of Household Daughter
Gender Female
Occupation Marine Store Assistant
Condition Single
Archive Reference RG13
Folio 12
Page 16
Piece Number 286
Person 2
First Name Thomas
Last Name Peake
Birth Year 1849
Age 52
Birth Town Homerton
Birth County Middlesex
Birth Place England
Relationship To Head of Household Head
Gender Male
Occupation Marine Store Dealer
Condition Widower
Archive Reference RG13
Folio 12
Page 16
Piece Number 286
Person 3
First Name Thomas
Last Name Peake
Birth Year 1889
Age 12
Birth Town Bethnal Green
Birth County Middlesex
Birth Place England
Relationship To Head of Household Son
Gender Male
Occupation
Condition Single
Archive Reference RG13
Folio 12
Page 16
Piece Number 286

Keith

Simply getting the birth cert would resolve it

Thank you for that summary, Karin, that all fits together.

The conclusion seems to be that there are two families containing similar names: there's the one I found in the C1861 which has a Margaret born 1881 and suggests Thomas married Margaret Newman, and another C1891 found by brummiejan with a Margaret born 1885 which has Thomas marrying Mary Duffy / Taylor.

Both seem possible and consistent. One has "my" Margaret stating her age correctly on the marriage certificate, the other has her fudging it, either also possible. My challenge now is to decide which explanation applies to "my" Margaret.

@Karin @Jacqueline you seem to be convinced that the Mary Duffy / Taylor one is the right one. On what do you base that choice / preference please?

I'm going to keep digging around this in an attempt to make a well-founded choice, if anyone has ideas how best to go about this or comes up with additional evidence I'll be very grateful.

Thank you all for helping think this through.

Keith

From FreeBMD
A possible death for Mary with the age fitting as she was born approx. 1847 according to census records
Deaths Dec 1898
Peake Mary 51 Bethnal G. 1c 106

and Thomas is listed as widower in 1901

Karin

Hi Keith

My suggestion is that Thomas Peake married Mary Duffy/Taylor
in 1884 and that Margaret and Thomas Peake Jnr are the children of Thomas and Mary. I don't believe Thomas had any other wife.

Margaret Peake was born in Bethnal Green in 1885 and Thomas Jnr born in Bethnal Green 1889.

Your grandmother Margaret may have "fudged" her age as has been suggested to appear older so as not to have such a huge age gap between her and John. It may also be a simple error on the part of whoever whoever took the information down for the marriage and census'.

Karin

That's not quite right, Jacqueline, I've had 1885 as an option for several months based on the FreeBMD record and the informal family tree However I saw no reason to prefer the evidence of a death report stating 1885 written some 75 years after the fact, over a marriage certificate written 30 years after the fact. Birth years on death certificates are often based on the stated / assumed / estimated age of the deceased rather than firm evidence. Either date could be in error.

FreeBMD only gives a record of the name and a quarter, there are rather a lot of Margaret Peakes (indeed there is another one adjacent on this same FreeBMD page!). As far as I know, only by ordering a copy of the birth certificate can I confirm the 1885 date. And maybe that's what I have to do.

Here's a census record from 1861:

C1861 probable based on location
Name: Thos Peake
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: 1851
Relation: Son (Child)
Father's name: Thomas Peake
Mother's name: Margaret Peake
Gender: Male
Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney St John
Ecclesiastical parish: Hackney
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 191
Piece: 157
Folio: 96
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Peake 39
Margaret Peake 33
Margaret Peake 11
Thos Peake 10
Maria Peake 9
John Peake 6
Emily Peake 5
William Peake 11/12
Ann Newman 76
Mary Newman 30

Here we have a Margaret Peake aged about 11 in 1861 giving a birth year of around 1850. At this point there would have been no reason to lie about her age. I would therefore expect to be able to find a birth record to match, but this has so far eluded me.

That said, the C1891 you quote provides equal justification for the 1885 date, thank you for that, it's one I have not yet seen - and for this one there is a matching birth record!

Based on the C1891 record it seems that Thomas remarried after his first (?) wife and mother of Margaret died (?). The C1911 record, if it's the same Thomas, has him widowed again.

So now I need a marriage record for Thomas and his first wife, a death record for a female Peake prior to 1911, and a marriage for Thomas and Mary (who had also been married before).

Again, many thanks, this is most helpful.

Keith

You are MISIING the fact that at death her birth year was recorded as 1885

And the birth you can't find is on freebmd and was posted on page one of this thread

@Jacqueline
I'm not clear how you can say Margaret lied about her age when she married. It's quite possible of course, and to back up your thoughts (?) an informal family tree from another family member shows her birth year as 1885, however I don't understand how we have evidence to choose 1881 or 1885, either have equal probability of being in error as I see it.
I have also looked for, and failed to find, a birth for Margaret Peake in 1885.
What am I missing?
Keith

You can now look yourself for the Taylors in 1881.................FREE on familysearch