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RR, I had seen the Teresa Moore living in Hollymount age 15 and wondered who she may be. That was in the 1901 census, another clog in the works, I had thought could she have left Holly Mount got pregnant , maybe Mary Teresa in there in 1911 could have been hers. This Teresa would have been 25 in 1911 . The mind boggles. I just hope when I hear back from Holly Mount they may find more than I have already found out about MTM

I have looked on the map for Manchester and found that Newcastle Street runs off Hulme Street. So it looks like Elizabeth Hawcroft lived nearby to where Mary Ann Moore lived with Annie Hart Tailoress at 36 Hulme Street. I see on the 1911 census Elizabeth Hawcroft was living at Clarendon Place her occupation Tailors finisher, so maybe that's why they knew each other through them being the same trade. Clarendon Place is near Patricroft station ( as on the map in 2015) on the 1911 census it states Mary Ann Moore inmate if workhouse states she was born in Patricroft, so maybe she had lived with the Hawcroft previous going into the workhouse so thought that's where she was born. Now I found a Mary Ann Moore b 1870 living in Oxford Street Manchester which looks like the Chorlton upon Medlock area and Hulme Street joins it. The head of house was a Henry Moore occ. Ironmonger employing 6 men, but I doubt it could be the Mary Ann I want because surely she would not be in a workhouse if the family had money. This Mary Ann was only on the 1871 and 1881 census, and didn't state if D &D, so maybe she can be ruled out.

Good morning :-)

According to a couple of trees on Ancestry 'our Mrs. Hawcroft' (nee Murphy) was known as 'Lilly' and she was apparently educated at some time at St John's Catholic School for the Deaf Church Street Boston Spa West Yorkshire England !!

Wasn't that where Mary Teresa was working? - Maybe her mother attended the school at some time too ?

I believe I have found her on 1891 below in Leeds, training as a Tailoress.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Tonbridge Street, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
**Deaf & D Institution **

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elizabeth Lynch Head Single Female 54 1837 Matron Deaf & D Institution Roman Catholic -
Elizabeth Carroll Assistant Single Female 25 1866 Artificial Flower Maker Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ellen Daly Boarder Single Female 19 1872 Tailoress Middlesex, England
Johanna Conroy Boarder Single Female 18 1873 Tailoress Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Jane Murphy Boarder Single Female 19 1872 Tailoress Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary F Carroll Boarder Single Female 19 1872 Tailoress Liverpool, Lancashire, England
**Lilly Murphy Boarder Single Female 17 1874 Tailoress Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary Nolan Boarder Single Female 19 1872 Tailoress Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Glancy Boarder Single Female 16 1875 Tailoress Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Ann Hurley Boarder Single Female 19 1872 Housework Manchester, Lancashire, England

Dea x

From John's post above:

"surely she would not be in a workhouse if the family had money."

John - perhaps you are not aware that many Workhouses were also hospitals and it has already been stated that her health was poor. She may have been in there for that reason - in the Infirmary there.?

Dea x

Confused :-S the address has changed.... is it 25 or 36 Hulme street ?

Well it was No 25 when we started looking RR but it seems to have changed over time ??? :-0 :-D

Dea x

Just for ref, the history of 'Boston Spa'

http://www.stjohns.org.uk/history-of-st-johns/

Sorry about my mistake with the address, can't think where 36 came from, it is 25 Hulme street, must have had back of my mind 38 Newcastle Street where Mrs Hawcroft lived

Well done Dea for finding that link between Mrs Hawcroft and Boston Spa :-)

What an amazing find about Elizabeth Hawcroft being at the d&d. School in Boston Spa. Yes Mary Teresa Moore was in domestic service there, daughter of Mary Ann Moore and it was Mary Teresa who was in poor health, possibly her mother also. It didn't state on any of the information that was sent to me from the RC care society that Mary Teresa could possibly have been deaf and dumb as well, just muscular rheumatism, I wonder was that why she was sent to Boston Spa.

Just for ref the Elizabeth Ann Murphy known as 'Lilly' in 1881

Lilly Murphy ( Deaf and dumb)
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relationship to Head: Daughter (Child)
Father: William Murphy
Mother: Margaret Murphy
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Heap
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 58 Miller Street
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Bury
Sub registration district: Heywood
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3856
Folio: 56
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
William Murphy 37
Margaret Murphy 39
(not transcribed)
Ama Murphy 17
James Murphy 16
Michael Murphy 13
Joseph Murphy 9
Lilly Murphy 7
Jane Murphy 4

Just looked at the birth cert. for Veronica Moore daughter of Mary Teresa Moore born Leeds 1925 states mother resided at Church Street Boston Spa. Where she worked was in High Street Boston Spa, so perhaps she may have lived at the Deaf and dumb institute in Church Street until she became pregnant and from there sent to St Josephs mother and baby home in Leeds, she was there for 1yr 2 weeks which must have been unusual to have such a long stay, then sent from there to St Veronicas Sheffield so she never went back to Boston Spa

Dea, when you found Polly Moore in the Manchester workhouse in 1904 did you notice the 1st column which states which ward , I think it is. Ibc, would that be imbecile, can you have a look please and see if you can make it out. Would they have classed being deaf and dumb as being an imbecile

To answer that John - No !!! - they would not class being deaf and dumb as 'imbecile' and I think what you are looking at is Hse which probably meant 'house'.

The ward, I think is the part of the establishment where they were sleeping - think of it as being like a 'ward' in a hospital. - She was probably in the main house rather than in any of the different wings.

Dea x

Many thanks Dea.

Hi Dea and Rose. Update . Just to let you know that I have had confirmation today that Polly (Mary Ann)Moore was named as the mother of Mary Teresa Moore who was admitted into Holly Mount convent in 1906 age 3 from the Manchester Chorlton upon Medlock workhouse, her mother still being in the workhouse. Now is the question who were the parents of Mary Ann Moore b 1870 Manchester

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1352578

probably to the chagrin of some

John, to post a link you copy what you see in the address line at the top of your thread and paste it where you want it to go

but the way not to have to do that is to abide by the rule of one post per subject

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1351313

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1350330?page=0

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1349828?d=asc

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1352578