Find Ancestors

a fascinating search :-)

I second that. Fascinating, Rooter!

It's been an interesting search anyway Rooter, for all of us :-)

Ok ... It's black sheep time ...
Husband arthur Bryant Louchs father was arthur george Louch (bookmaker). Info. From arthur and elizabeth marriage certificate 1887.
So far so good .....
In 1888 father and son are in business together in Finsbury Park (Middlesex commercial gazette)
So far so good .....
Then the divorce in 1900 on the grounds that elizabeth left her husband and went to live with her father and mother, charles and Abigail Webb, and there "lived a life of prostitution" in her parents brothel. William Watkins is one of the many she committed adultery with. Info. From court record.
Oh dear...oh dear ...oh dear....
Explains why their son, arthur, was removed to Bristol and the type of establishment he was removed to...
Moving on as I think I know enough about this lady now!

When Elizabeth was named as NOK when her son joined the Hussars (at age 15!), her address is given as "not known", whereas Uncle Charles's address is known.

I wonder if that means that even Arthur didn't know where his mother was?

You probably have this but I might as well add as i am working through the name...


Name: Clarice Louch
Mother's Maiden Surname: Burke
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1919
Registration district: Barnet
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 287


married 1947 Edmonton.

she was still at 12 Westerham Ave in 1943 phone book

Sorry ... Have got her in 1891 ... Typo ! Forgot to say I've also checked elizabeth Watkins to william Watkins marriages in case she took the correspondents name, but no joy there.....

My, you've some staying power! Thanks again.
I've been doing some digging on the son ...
We know that he was on the electoral rolls with his wife Nellie alice throughout the 1920s. Ive found him with his wife and children, Nellie eliza florence and Percy arthur in 12 westerham avenue, Edmonton in 1937. I've got his death and probate to his wife in 1961, still of 12 westerham. Avenue. He's a confectioner from 1912 when the victim in the old Bailey trial and in 1916 when he is exempted from military service.
We know that in 1903 elizabeth Louch was named as his next of kin when he joined the hussars.
So ...although I like the idea of reversion to her maiden name and going to Bristol to be near her son, I think she is more likely to have lived and died in the Edmonton or Croydon areas as her son left Bristol when he joined up in 1903. Frustrating not to be able to find her in 1891 and subsequently, but I'll keep looking...
Thanks again for your kind interest.

It's a possibility, RR.

Still can't see her in any censuses, though, after 1891.

I had high hopes of an Ellen Watkins, married to a William, and born c1867 in Croydon - but they're traceable right back to their marriage in 1887.

I've come back to this death a couple of times, just with the thought that Elizabeth might have reverted to her maiden name and gone to Bristol to be near her son?

Name: Elizabeth M Webb
Birth Date: abt 1868
Date of Registration: Jun 1943
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Bristol
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 165

And I thought argyllgran had given up! Yes, thanks to you and sylviaincanada this is uncle charles. I think my cottrells are friends as the name doesn't appear anywhere else on my tree, so you can breathe easy! I thought elizabeth could be with charles too ... How frustrating. Will keep looking. Thanks again for your Herculean efforts.

Don't know why I'm doing this - but anyway . . . . .

Brother Charles is a railway porter in 1890, at his marriage, and in 1891 census, but in 1901 he's a gas worker, and by 1911 he's a painter & decorator.
Sadly, Elizabeth's not living with him, which is what I was looking for:

Clark Webb (Charles on image)

in the 1891 England Census
Name: Clark Webb
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline Webb
Gender: Male
Where born: Thornton Heath, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Condition as to marriage:
Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1311
Folio: 139
Page Number: 69
Household Members:
Name Age
Clark Webb 20
Caroline Webb 20




Charles Webb

in the 1901 England Census
Name: Charles Webb
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Caroline Webb
Birth Place: Surrey, England
Civil Parish: East Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary the Virgin
Town: East Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: East Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 44
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1602
Folio: 25
Page Number: 3
Household schedule number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Webb 30
Caroline Webb 30
Eleanor Webb 9
Charles Webb 7
Elsie Webb 4
Frank Webb 1
Charles Bates 41 - boarder




Charles Webb

in the 1911 England Census
Name: Charles Webb
Age in 1911: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Thornton Heath, Surrey
Civil Parish: East Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 9 Grantham Road, Manor Park, Essex
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Painter and Paper Hanger
Registration district: West Ham
Registration District Number: 188
Sub-registration district: North East Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Household schedule number: 180
Piece: 9581
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Webb 40
Caroline Webb 40
Charles Webb 18
Eleanor Webb 19
Alice Webb 16
Elsie Webb 14
Frank Webb 12
Edith Webb 8
John Sciffleet 50 - boarder

This is him, I presume???



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921


Report issue

Name: Charles Captain Webb
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Age: 21
Spouse: Cardine Hasslton Nugent
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 May 1890
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Charles Webb
Spouse Father: Thomas Hasslton Nugent
Register Type: Parish Register


from image ..........

age 21
Railway Porter
Father occupation:- Navvie

Caroline
age 21
Servant
Father occupation: Coal Porter (deceased)

Witnesses:- Harry Cottrell, Alice Cottrell and Edward Cottrelll



maybe he thought he'd better have 2 names to match Caroline :-)




oh lord ............... look at the names of the witnesses ...........

........... I have Cottrells in my mother's ancestry


Please ................... let not these be connected with my Lancashire ones :-)

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Now you all know why I was going round and round in circles!!! Still mightily confused at this end, but less so thanks to all your efforts. I'm sure you've all had enough of this peculiar set of people, but just in case you haven't ..... Uncle charles (next of kin on son Arthur's enlistment 1903) must be Elizabeth's brother who, for some strange reason appears on his marriage certificate as charles captain Webb! Don't ask about the Middle name (which he doesn't use anywhere else) ... I don't know ... I simply don't know ....!!! Thanks again everyone for all your help.

I've been lost with this one since shortly after my postings early this morning!

Now I'm laughing hysterically!

"Confused" doesn't cover it!

I give up - for the sake of my sanity.

Is Arthur Lane born 1861 actually the Bryant Arthur born Whitechapel 1861? named Louch but before Bryant and Emma married so 'Lane' on the census?

He must be mustn't he?

looks like Bryant ( cooper) and Emma ( nee Lane) had another child after they married

Name: Walter Louch
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 19 Oct 1862
Father's name: Bryant Louch
Mother's name: Emma Louch
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers


Name: Mary Alice Louch
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 7 Aug 1864
Father's name: Bryant Louch
Mother's name: Emma Louch
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

I think Mary died 1866...Walter seems to be on 1871 with relatives listed as nephew?