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Don't think Dolly is who we are looking for

Lily -- Lillian May Tyrrell = Lionel Hubert Moore 1931 Plymouth

Dolly --- Dorothy Tyrell = Fernleigh George H Trenhaile 1934 Plymouth
D o B for Dorothy Trenhaile on death 1996 27 th Nov 1908

Mavis

the family 1891 census


Name:
George Tyrrell

Age:
51

Estimated birth year:
abt 1840

Relation:
Head

Spouse's Name:
Emily Tyrrell

Gender:
Male

Where born:
Tavistock, Devon, England

Civil Parish:
Tavistock

Ecclesiastical parish:
St Eustachins

Town:
Tavistock

County/Island:
Devon

Country:
England

Registration district:
Tavistock
Piece:
1749

Folio:
112

Page Number:
18
George Tyrrell 51
Emily Tyrrell 39
Jessie Metters 10
George Metters 7
Sarah Metters 5
John Metters 4
Lucy Tyrrell 3
Elizabeth Tyrrell 2
Emma Tyrrell 8/12

Mavis

this is the Dolly/Dorothy family 1901 census


Name:
George Terrell

Age:
42

Estimated birth year:
abt 1859

Relation to Head:
Head

Gender:
Male

Spouse:
Emily Terrell

Birth Place:
Plymouth, Devon, England

Civil Parish:
Tavistock

Ecclesiastical parish:
Tavistock St Eustachius

Town:
Tavistock

County/Island:
Devon

Country:
England


Registration district:
Tavistock

Sub-registration district:
Tavistock

ED, institution, or vessel:
2

Piece:
2116

Folio:
34

Page Number:
22

Household schedule number:
157

George Terrell 42
Emily Terrell 45
George Terrell 18 [Metters]
Sarah Terrell 16 [Metters]
John Terrell 14 [Mettters]
Louisa Terrell 13
Elizabeth Terrell 12
Emily Terrell 10
Rosina Terrell 9
Henry Terrell 4

Mavis

Hi Jacqueline

I see your point but I also made me wonder, in view of the later info, whether the age gap between her and Reginald might have seemed too big so she shortened it.

The more I look into her story the more sure I am that she was illegitimate, but I will keep trying to find her.

Karen

I would think that her age when she married is more likely to be accurate than any later info.

Some women do like to knock off some years where they can..........

Christine

The same page numbers are used over and over, so there is nothing odd about the entries



Births Jun 1908 (>99%)
Ager Charlotte Violet Maldon 4a 791


Births Jun 1911 (>99%)
Adams Beatrice M Maldon 4a 736

What is really odd about these birth registrations is that the 1910 one is listed on the page BEFORE the 1909 one is! I have checked the images and the transcription appears to be right.

Births Jun 1909
Tyrell Dorothy May Maldon 4a 757
Births Jun 1910
TYRELL Dorothy May Maldon 4a 756

I'm probably way off beam but will post it anyway

Do you think there could be any chance that this is the birth of Dorothy/Dolly



Name:Frances Louisa Tyrrell

Registration Year:1909

Registration Quarter:Apr-May-Jun

Registration district:Exeter

Inferred County:Devon

Volume:5b
Page:76


Edit:

I can't find a marriage or a death for the above girl?

found this 1911 census

unsure what Dolly's name could be

Name:
Dolly Tyrrell

Age in 1911:
2

Estimated birth year:
abt 1909

Relation to Head:
Grandchild

Gender:
Female

Birth Place:
Exeter, Devon

Civil Parish:
Tavistock

County/Island:
Devon

Country:
England

Registration district:
Tavistock

Registration District Number:
279

Sub-registration district:
Tavistock

ED, institution, or vessel:
16

Household schedule number:
126

Piece:
13087

Household Members:

George Tyrrell 50
Emma Tyrrell 55
Jack Tyrrell 25
Lucy Tyrrell 24
Rose Tyrrell 19
Henry Tyrrell 14
Lily Tyrrell 3
Dolly Tyrrell 2
---------------------------------------------------

looks as if the grand children are from unmarried daughter ??????

Mavis

To answer questions since I posted.

My uncle Raymond found Dorothy and gave the details but at that time we still based DOB on past incorrect info, like the age given on her marriage cert, and before the finding of a much later adult baptism record where she herself supplied DOB.

The Plymouth marriage between Dorothy and Reginald Clifford Carn in 1938 is correct one, the copy I have was taken from her original in my mother's possession.

The marriage was witnessed by M. Carn and M Tregidge (not sure if this is correct spelling as hard to read)

The E on Carn/e seems to have been added sometime after 1938 marriage but who did and why is not known.

Firstly, thank you to everyone that took the time to post things. I kept the initial post simple as it's quite lengthy otherwise but to add more;

I was led to believe ( by my mother and uncle) that she was born on 12 May 1910, she celebrated 12 May as her birthday and 1910, working back from her age at marriage, 28 in 1938. All wrong!! Her husband Reginald , my grandfather, died in 1952 when my mother was young. His date of birth was 12 May. I think she celebrated his as a way of remembering him. Decades later while looking for another family I found her as an adult baptism on 15 June 1952 under her married name , 5 months after Reginald death, and in the birth date column was 10 May 1914. Eureka!! Or not, I still am no further on.

I had come across the Maldon birth early on but later the dates didn't match, and can find no other in the right year or quarter. She never remarried, I was close to her but never knew anything of her life. She seemed to have no accent other than soft Devon, and no unusual names for things that we can recall.

My mother always said that she was disowned by her family, she was expecting my uncle when she married, and that she possibly had family in Plymouth but no - one knew anything more.

I would love to find more but not even sure now that the date of birth she gave at adult baptism is even true :-\

I have to go out shortly, so can't follow this up. There is something not quite right here.

1911

Dorothy May Vickery
Age in 1911: 2/12
Estimated birth year: abt 1911
Relation to Head: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Plymouth, Devon
Civil Parish: Plymouth
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: 3 Edith Avenue, Plymouth
Occupation: Nil
Registration district: Plymouth
Registration District Number: 276
Sub-registration district: Plymouth South East
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 31
Piece: 12971
Household Members:
Name Age
George Broughton Vickery 68
Mary Ann Vickery 71
Alfred Ernest William Vickery 34
Ethel Ellen Vickery 29
Alfred Broughton Vickery 7
Dorothy May Vickery 2/12
Ethel May Vickery 4
Ethel Vickery 5/12. <<<<<< 5 minutes on image
Henry George Vickery 2/12

The Grandparents seem only to have 1 child who lived to adulthood and the number of children for Ethel Ellen doesn't tie in with the number of children on the census. I can find a birth reg for Henry but the one for Dorothy May seems to be the following year.

Just wondering if Dorothy May Tyrell's birth was registered under a different surname.

of course there is always the fact that Dorothy was illigit under a different
surname and her mother Married a Tyr[r]ell at a later date ??

Mavis

The son and daughter are in Karen's tree.

The son has his own tree on here, and both he and his sister are also in another member's tree

Firstly, thank you to everyone that took the time to post things. I kept the initial post simple as it's quite lengthy otherwise but to add more;

I was led to believe ( by my mother and uncle) that she was born on 12 May 1910, she celebrated 12 May as her birthday and 1910, working back from her age at marriage, 28 in 1938. All wrong!! Her husband Reginald , my grandfather, died in 1952 when my mother was young. His date of birth was 12 May. I think she celebrated his as a way of remembering him. Decades later while looking for another family I found her as an adult baptism on 15 June 1952 under her married name , 5 months after Reginald death, and in the birth date column was 10 May 1914. Eureka!! Or not, I still am no further on.

I had come across the Maldon birth early on but later the dates didn't match, and can find no other in the right year or quarter. She never remarried, I was close to her but never knew anything of her life. She seemed to have no accent other than soft Devon, and no unusual names for things that we can recall.

My mother always said that she was disowned by her family, she was expecting my uncle when she married, and that she possibly had family in Plymouth but no - one knew anything more.

I would love to find more but not even sure now that the date of birth she gave at adult baptism is even true :-\

A daughter's birth was registered without the final 'e', and with two 'r's' in MMN

That daughter is on the ER WITH the 'e'

The son's birth is registered without the 'e', and with only one 'r' in MMN, so discrepancies must be allowed for

Can't be too many Dorothy M Carn(e)s in Devon

And Dorothy did not know who her father was.........as stated at the outset

A son of Reginald and Dorothy Carn[e] also has the E
on the end

Mavis

I'm not sure the death that Mavis posted is the Dorothy that we are looking for

There is a death in Chelmsford which matches the probate details and the 1929 marriage


Name: Dorothy May Newman
Birth: 19 Aug 1916
Death: Oct 2004 - Chelmsford, Essex, England


Edit:

With the birth date being ambiguous, it's hard to tell

If Karen returns, perhaps she'll tell us where she got her info about the DOB


Mavis has posted Dorothy's death