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That was good of you Jude. Pity there was no occupation for William. It would have been good to confirm his occupation one way or another.

I downloaded the cert and sent it to Margaret before I went to my exam this morning

No occupation for him :-(

Jude

That's useful to know GlasgowLass. Although I live in Glasgow and use The Mitchell a lot, I have never used the bit that is equivalent to Register House in Edinburgh. When I started researching in the 1970s, you had to go through to Edinurgh and apart from once have continued to do so. A friend and I once went to the search room when it was up at Park Circus in Glasgow but the atmosphere wasn't as good as the old New Register House in Edinburgh. In Edinburgh when they first started doing the printouts, I used to collect them twice, once at the end of the morning session and again before leaving. I like the system now where you can put money into you account and as the printers are in the room, you can collect the printouts as you go along. My friend and I just treat going to Edinburgh as a day out and enjoy a nice lunch as a bonus. We used to go by train but as we both now have bus passes we get the 7.15 bus through and get back home around 7 pm. A grand day out.

Hi Rootgatherer,
I was at the Mitchell Library and it was the end of the session and too late to print the cert! ( no prints after 3pm... most irritating)
I honestly can't recall an occupation on the cert and it's not on my scribbled notes, but the name was entered and definitely crossed out.

Although the Mitchell library does offer a good service, I much prefer Register House in Edinburgh.
1) it's open 9-5 where Glasgow is open 9.30-4pm but both charge £15 per day
2) In Edinburgh, documents can be saved to a USB/memory stick at 30p. Glasgow has print only @ 50p and printing stops at 3pm!
3) documents saved to a USB can be accessed at any time during the session to be re checked for snippets of info, but Glasgow retain ALL the prints and give them to you at the end of the session.

I'll be going to Edinburgh next time

Maybe a bit of a long shot here but Portugal Street was just across the Clyde from Brown Street........

1871

William Anderson
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/10
Registration district: Hutchesontown
Civil Parish: Glasgow Gorbals
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 6 Portugal St
Occupation: Cabinet Maker
ED: 118
Household schedule number: 63
LINE: 17
Roll: CSSCT1871_142
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Arbuthnot 47
John Arbuthnot 15
William Anderson 34
Hugh Michelland

I can't find the above William in 1881.

Thank you Margaret. Hope you have a successful time researching with your American rellie.

Thanks rootgatherer, I had planned to go to GRO when the weather got better and I have a relative from America at home for a short time who is also doing her tree so that was a plan for us to go soon. Thank you for your help, it is lovely to know people are happy to help. Keep you updated if I find William. Margaret

How very kind of you Anne. When looking for common surnames, there's no doubt that , if possible, going to the GRO is by far the best way. Margaret could have spent quite a lot of credits on SP before she found the correct James Ross.

Just by chance Anne, did it gave an occupation for William please? Just wondering if we could possibly identify William on any census.

Margaret, I am so please that your mystery has been solved. If we could find William that would be the icing on the cake :-)

Hi Ann, I'm in shock at the moment, thank you for going to the trouble of finding him for me. I started to look for him under his mothers name but hadn't found at this point. I don't know what else to say except a massive thank you. Margaret :-D

Margaret,
I was at the GRO today and I looked for your grandfathers birth.
His birth name was :
JAMES ROSS born 8 Sep 1876 at 36 Brown St, Glasgow
His mother Margaret Ross (a French Polisher) was unmarried and registered the birth.

A father's name of William Anderson was initially added to the cert, but it was scored out.
When a mother is not married, the father must be present and agree to have his name added to the cert.
There was no RCE issued at a later date to add a father.

James's parents were definitely not married at the time of his birth

Anne

Thank you Margaret. If I think of anything else in the meantime, I'll post on here.

Good luck.

Hi, I will get back to tell you how I get on with my search. Yes all of their names are mentioned in marriage and death certificates. I also went to the grave yard to ask if they have D.o.b, on their records but no luck there either. You have been very kind and gave me loads of ways to pursue my quest, hope to get back to you very soon. Margaret.

Not necessarily Jude. I'm not sure they would have asked for proof if she was widowed. She quite correctly gave the name she was known by -Anderson. All female marriages in Scotland are all indexed using all the names that you have been known by. So if you are divorced or widowed, a second marriage would be indexed using both your previous married name and your maiden surname. I have someone in my tree who has been widowed 3 times, so her fourth marriage will be indexed under her 3 previous married surnames and also her maiden surname.

Margaret has the certificate of the second marriage to Charles who died shortly after they married. Perhaps that's why the marriage to James Skinner is only indexed twice rather than three times. Maybe the bride felt that the marriage was for such a short time it wasn't worth mentioning. The registrar can only record the information as given to him.

The marriage to James Skinner is shown twice -

1 1886 SKINNER JAMES ANDERSON MAGGIE CALTON (GLASGOW) GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0127
2 1886 SKINNER JAMES ROSS MAGGIE CALTON (GLASGOW) GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0127

Surely this mean she DID marry Mr Anderson?

Assume marriage to Charles in 1883 is a typo?

Jude

Just a thought, did Magaret's death certificate name all her spouses and their occupations please? That would be usual on a Scottish death certificate if the informant knows the details.

Yes, I think that's the thing to do Margaret. I think the difficulty is that we can't be certain that his father was an Anderson never mind his first name being William. I suspect James just made up a name and occupation for his father rather than admit that his parents never married. We know he may have been register as Anderson or Ross but also if his father was present at the registration, it could be a completely different surname. From memory though, if that was the case and his parents weren't married, his birth would be indexed under both surnames.

When you go to the Mitchell or SP centre, look up the birth of his brother / half brother William just in case it has a father named or has an RCE naming the father. It might also help to get a marriage or death registration for William to see if the father's details differ from those that James gave on his marriage certificate.

The only thing that we know for sure is that James's birth must have been registered, we just don't know the surname but my money would be on Ross.

It would be great if you did come back and let us know now you get on as curiosity is certainly getting the better of me!

Good luck.

At this point I have tried some of what you suggested without any luck but feel I will have to go to Glasgow to Scotlands People as there is no clear answers and it would help with no distractions to concentrate. I will post a notice of my findings either way. Thanks for all your help, I only wish I had more answers to give. Margaret

Have you eliminated this birth please?

1876 ROSS JAMES LINDSAY M ANDERSTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/10 0247

Yes, I saw that 1841 census and wondered about it. Do you have that couple in 1851 please?

1841

John Ross
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Coylton
County: Ayrshire
Address: Clowhernan
Occupation: Ag Lab
Parish Number: 583
Household Members:
Name Age
Adam Pettigrew 40
Jane Pettigrew 70
John Ross 20
Jane Campbell 25
Mary Galt 15
Janet Lockhart

Hi, yes I have her birth certificate and live near Coylton, her mother and father were servants on a farm in Coylton in Ayrshire. Her D.O.B 15/10/1841. Her son William signed her death certificate and she returned to Coylton and died age 70 12/06/1912 name still Skinner however I think you might be right about the possibility she may not have married William. There is a possibility William might be either English or Irish, and yes I'm as sure as I can be about her parents. Margaret