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Karen, if he was in the ROYAL Navy, then I guess this isn't him as it's Merchant Navy?

Merchant Seamen
First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name Morton

Birth year 1902
Birth place South Shields
Birth county Durham

Place SOUTH SHIELDS
Discharge number R 44341
Identity certificate number ­
Card type CR1
Date range 1921­1941
Series BT349

The card is dated 1928 so that, I suppose, would exclude it if he was in the RN 1921 to 1941.

For the record, it appears that the card was signed in Tenbury? Shame, as the signature on it would have been useful for comparing to that on any marriage certificate.

This man was 5' 7'' tall, fair complexion, brown hair, blue eyes.

Sorry - I meant to say about April / May 1934, (not about 1934). I actually have a photo of Jean dated 8th September 1934 which actually says "William's daughter Jean aged 4 months old".

As regards William's occupation. He was actually in the Royal Navy and I do have shipping history documents for him from Dec 1921 through to Feb 1941. Also some of these Shipping Documents do show Cardiff (which would fit in with my aunt thinking that William and his family MAY have gone to Wales to live), but again NOTHING concrete on living in Wales.

The wedding certificate I sent for (Morton / Battye) was for a marriage in 1933. William's father Thomas actually died in 1924. He ISN'T actually showing as "deceased" on the certificate (even though I do appreciate that this could have been missed off at the time). The certificate shows both William and his father Thomas's occupations as Weavers, and nobody in the family thinks this is correct.

Thomas in the 1901 census is showing as a House Joiner, and on William's birth certificate in 1902 Thomas was listed as a Joiner / Journeyman. In the 1911 census he was listed as a Coal Miner Shifter (Thomas's father was also a Coal Miner).

I have also been told by family members that William also used to be a Captain on the boats on the River Tyne (which all fits in with his shipping background).

I "have" been keeping a VERY open mind, and I have also thought of the possibility that "Maud" may have been married previously, but obviously I don't know anything CONCRETE on that. I've looked at every possible combination of the spelling of the surname for Maud. I've also looked at all marriages for a William Morton and the spouse's names and surnames and then also the different maiden names for Jean Morton's mothers. I did, a few years ago, also look at the maiden names of the Jean Morton's mothers and check out marriages (in case there was a previous marriage), but didn't appear to find anything that matched completely. I think I may have to readdress that and have another look.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and suggestions. This has been a real "brick wall" of mine for a LONG LONG time now. Hopefully I can break it down one day.

Regards
Karen

MC - Thomas was a miner in 1911 so notorious for a change in occupation in my view!

Karen - have you actually got anything documentary regarding William after 1911 census? i.e. how do you know his occupation?

As MC says, you need to keep an open mind regarding all parties or else you are going to shut down avenues before they have been opened up.

What hard proof do you have of anything that would help to start looking?

Jude

What if "Maud" had been previously married - perhaps widowed whilst still young?

The mother's maiden name on the births would then not match any surname on a marriage for William Morton as "Maud" would have re-married in her current name.

The above is just conjecture, but worth thinking about .......

Karen, your original post said Jean was born "about 1934" but you now say it was DEFINITELY April or May 1934 - in that case, this is the only registration in the whole country that fits:

Births Jun 1934
Morton Jean Dyson Halifax 9a 471

Personally, I'd be keeping an open mind as to when she was born and also as to whether Jean was her full name.

You say that the marriage certificate you got for Morton & Battye was wrong because of the occupations - what would have been William and his father's occupations when he married?

Karen, how do you know definitely about jean's birth? If you rule out 1933 registrations then everything in this thread is irrelevant!

The only birth that fits is one registered in halifax in june 1934, mmn dyson

jude

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the help. However, Jean was "definitely" born in either April or May 1934, so that rules out the birth for the Jean born in 1933.

My nan's brother was "definitely" only called WILLIAM MORTON (with NO middle name).

I did already apply to send for the marriage certificate for that marriage, but it came back saying they weren't going to process the certificate as William's father's name did NOT match. So I've already ruled that one out.

I also sent for a certificate of a William Morton who married a Mary Adelaide Battye (as the dates fitted with the birth of Jean in 1934, AND his father's name was also Thomas which is correct). I sent for this one, as firstly someone had told me that Maud WASN'T a name in it's own right and that it was an everyday name for someone called Mary (I have since found this out to be completely wrong), and secondly, because my nan had a photo of Maud with her name written on the back and the surname looked something like "battie", "ballie", "battier" or "batties" or something like that, and I had wondered whether my nan had just written it down wrongly and that it should have been "Battye".

However, when the certificate came back, Thomas his father had the wrong occupation, as did William, and also William's age made him born about 1908 and he was born in 1902.

I think this one will remain a big mystery for a long while, unless I just find some concrete evidence out of the blue.

Thanks for all your help.
Much appreciated.

hi
found jean morton's birth 1933 south shields
george morton 1935 south shields
dorothy a morton 1938 durham n e
it must be them because there is only one marriage for morton and corbett in bdm

yvonne

Name: William Morton
Probate Date: 23 Feb 1940
Death Date: 18 Dec 1939
Death Place: Glamorgan, Wales
Registry: Llandaff

This is William husband of Katherine..

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrews Katherine Gwendoline Cardiff 11a 474


Andy

Just to rule her out perhaps

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1908 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Corbett Hannah Moore S. Shields 10a 901


Andy

need to spend money on a cert. of that marriage to at least
eliminate that the Morton / Andrews Is not your William Morton.

he does have no middle name

Mavis

Thanks so much to everyone for looking at info for me.

Yes the William Morton Morton birth is the RIGHT one - I have his birth certificate. On the actual certificate he is just listed as William Morton, so must have been a mistake about the extra Morton bit being put in.

I don't have any CONCRETE evidence of when my William actually died, so not exactly sure about the death reference, but I'll bear it in mind and make note of the reference.

I had seen previously the Corbett and Andrews connections, but William was DEFINITELY just William (with NO middle names at all), so they didn't actually fit either.

This has been a REAL mystery to me for many years, but i'll keep looking.

Thanks again to everyone.

Regards
Karen

Re: the 1943 death posted

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: William Morton
Probate Date: 9 Dec 1943
Death Date: 30 Oct 1943
Death Place: Sunderland
Registry: Durham, England

Probate to widow Susannah Willis Morton.

This is probably the William Morton who was registered in Sunderland last quarter of 1902.

Birth

Jean G Morton Jun Q 1933 Cardiff 11a 693 mth m name Andrews

marriage

William Morton = Kathrine G Andrews Sep Q 1931 Cardiff 11a 658

not a Maud but is a William

dos'nt seem to be any other children Morton / Andrews

Mavis

I saw that one too Margee and wondered about it

Curiously George Thomas also born 1902, South Shields:

Births Jun 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morton George Thomas S. Shields 10a 915

There doesn't seem to be a marriage for William Morton, right place, right time but there's this George T. who married Hannah M. Corbett (possible middle name Maud?)

Marriages Mar 1933 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Corbett Hannah M Morton S.Shields 10a 1042
Morton George T Corbett S. Shields 10a 1042

?????

Name: Jean Morton
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1933
Registration District: South Shields
County: Durham
Event Place: South Shields, Durham, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3): Corbett
Volume: 10A
Page: 1016
Line Number: 127

??????

Name: William Morton
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1943
Registration District: Sunderland
County: Durham
Event Place: Sunderland, Durham, England
Age (available after 1866): 41
Birth Year (Estimated): 1902
Volume: 10A
Page: 740
Line Number: 125

Name: William Morton Morton
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year: 1902
Registration District: South Shields
County: Durham
Event Place: South Shields, Durham, England
Volume: 10A
Page: 877
Line Number: 371