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Can't find a birth reg for Julia Brennan but there is one for Julia Cummin(g)s:


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Julia Cummings
Julia Cummings
Registration Year:1888
Registration Quarter:Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district:Newcastle upon Tyne

Volume:10b

Page:1

Wow that is confusing or some very poor transcribers!

Wow that is confusing or some very poor transcribers!

Well it becomes even more confusing....Cant see a mistranscription of Brennan to Cummins although Christian name of father is same.



Stepheni Cummins

mentioned in the record of Julia Cummins

Name: Stepheni Cummins
Gender: Male
Wife: Catherinae Lamphere
Child: Julia Cummins

Other information in the record of Julia Cummins

from England Births and Christenings

Name: Julia Cummins
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 19 Sep 1888
Christening Place: St Mary's Clayton Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Birth Date: 16 Aug 1888
Father's Name: Stepheni ""Cummins"""
Mother's Name: Catherinae Lamphere

Haha! Most likely!!

Patricia I would be inclined to think its a mistranscription of Steel Works !!

The parents of Stephen Brennan on the birth certificate are Catherine Brennan formerly Lamphiare and Stephen Brennan.
Wikipaedia which I know we cannot trust says,
"Newcastle was part of the county of Northumberland until 1400 when it became a county of itself;[7] a status it retained until becoming part of the Tyne and Wear metropolitan county in 1974.[8]" but I also found a book,
The Historical Account of Newcastle-upon-Tyne - Including the Borough of Gateshead described as the 'Descriptive and Historical Account of the Town and County of Newcastle-upon-Tyne' by the Newcastle author and publisher Eneas Mackenzie.
An uncle's birth certificate says the County of Newcastle upon Tyne C.B.and another says in the County of Newcastle upon Tyne and Northumberland so I think Newcastle must be considered a county for these purposes.
Sorry about the maths! you are correct of course and that MUST be him. I think Annie may be a daughter of Catherine Lamphiare from a previous marriage as Stephens sisters are Mary Ellen, Alice and Julia. Now trying to find out what Sheilaworks is as listed as Stephens occupation!

you also posted .................


He had 3 sisters which an uncle told me were called Mary Ellen, Julia and Alice.


from the 1901 Census

Stephen Bruman 50 Boiler Maker
Catherine Bruman 43
Annie Bruman 20
>>>>Mary E Bruman 17
>>>>Julia Bruman 13
Stephen Bruman 8


and could the uncle have got mixed up between an Alice and an Annie???



?????????

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Maria Brennan

Name: Maria Brennan
[Maria Brenan]
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 30 Jul 1885
Baptism Place: St. Mary's Clayton Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Father: Stepheni Brenan
Mother: Catharina Lamper
FHL Film Number: 1936949
Reference ID: item 3-4 p 643

Also ...........

if he was born in 1892, he would have been 9 in 1901


and 19 in 1911


taking 19 as the correct age ........................... and without knowing his parents' names ................. could this actually be him in 1911?????

1911 Census

Name: Stephen Brennan
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Newcastle-on-tyne
Civil Parish: Elswick
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address: 62 Oak St Newcastle On Tyne
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Sheilaworks
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Registration District Number: 558
Sub-registration district: Elswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Piece: 30585

Stephen Brennan 65
Catherine Brennan 53
Juila Brennan 21
Mary Brennan 23
Stephen Brennan 18
Alice Brennan 15




and here he is in 1901


1901 Census

Name: Stephen Bruman
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: Stephen Bruman
Mother: Catherine Bruman
Birth Place: Newcastle, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Jarrow
Ecclesiastical parish: Jarrow Grange Christchurch
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Registration district: South Shields
Sub-registration district: Jarrow
ED, institution, or vessel: 17

Piece: 4742
Folio: 11
Page Number: 13
Household schedule number: 76

Stephen Bruman 50 Boiler Maker
Catherine Bruman 43
Annie Bruman 20
Mary E Bruman 17
Julia Bruman 13
Stephen Bruman 8



The surname probably is Brennan on the image ........ but is a little hard to read



I haven't read back, but you were probably given this earlier ..............



England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Stephanus Brennan

Name: Stephanus Brennan
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 2 Nov 1892
Baptism Date: 22 Dec 1892
Baptism Place: St Dominic, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Father: Stephani Brennan
Mother: Catharinae Cullen Brennan
FHL Film Number: 1936943
Reference ID: p 421 n 2148




I think that is it all cut and dried for you!

To get the full story from the birth certificate ....................


what are the names of the mother and father on that birth certificate.




I also do not understand the place of birth .................


you have posted ..................

in the sub district of Byker, county of Newcastle upon Tyne


Newcastle upon Tyne is a CITY, not a county

Newcastle upon Tyne is in the COUNTY of Northumberland.



it seems wrong that an official document such as a birth certificate would have the county wrong

I have a copy of my grandfather's birth certificate from my cousin. DOB 9/11/1892
Birth in the sub district of Byker, county of Newcastle upon Tyne entry 108
He says the Bruman family found by Margee is an Ancestry transcription error. It is clearly Brennan in the original. So I have his birthdate which makes him 9 at the time of the 1911 census but he is not listed in the Bruman/Brennan household?? Can he be found elsewhere?

Patricia ...........


never ever rule out mis-spellings of names on records .........


............. we've all had weird and wonderful versions of family names on censuses, newspapers, and even on the bmd Index!


the early records, and all censuses, were hand-written, and most modern day transcribers have problems with old-style writing

Just one point ............................


I always believed that my grandfather's birthday was on December 25, year unstated. That was the day it was celebrated. That was the date my mother told me. That was the date all the family said was his birth date. etc etc



UNTIL he died, when I was 23 ......................... and my uncle found a birth certificate tucked in a drawer


He was actually born on January 9 1885



Moral of this story ..................... never be too dogmatic about information found in diaries, letters, or family stories!

http://www.rcdhn.org.uk/looking_up_records.php
Parish records are held either in the parishes themselves or in the local authority archives offices. By arrangement between the Bishop and these archives offices, the records of the parishes established prior to 1950 have been surveyed and the older records deposited in the archives office of the local authority district in which the parish lies. The offices are those of Durham, Northumberland, Teesside and Tyne and Wear. The parish records, including the registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths, are open to inspection in these offices, to which applications for access should be made.

I would say there's now 2 RC churches serving Byker

St. Teresa of the Infant Jesus
Heaton Road
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE6 5HN
http://stteresasheaton.org.uk/
x=426892&y=565352

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/245221
Subject Location NZ 268 655


St. Lawrence
Byker Crescent
Byker
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE6 2JT
x=427409&y=564736

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1776451
Subject Location NZ 2739 6472 [10m precision]


This church is W of the Ouseburn (equiv'ly Byker Bridge)

St. Dominic's Priory Church
41A Red Barns
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 2TP
http://stdominicspriorynewcastle.wordpress.com/
x=425875&y=564422

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2811028
Subject Location NZ 2580 6447 [10m precision]


Geeky proceedural note
I looked at the RC diocese map of its churches:
http://www.rcdhn.org.uk/churches07/maps/epimap1v3.html
and clicked on the interesting ones, and copied the addy's.
I then went to http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ and searched for the postal code
The web site takes me to an URL, and embedded in the URL is the old style OS coordinates of the arrow point, e.g.,
St. Dominic's URL contains x=425875&y=564422 and the OS coords are 425875,564422
These measure the easting & northing in metres from the zero datum point which is 130km W of Lands End.
To convert to the newer Landranger coords, one needs to know NZ are the magic letters for 4eeeee,5nnnnn style coords, so the Landranger coords are NZ eeeee nnnnn or NZ 25875 64422 here (I've introduced spaces for convenience).
Now NZ 25875 64422 is to the nearest metre, and NZ 2587 6442 is to the nearest 10m, and NZ 258 644 is to nearest 100m and NZ 25 64 is to nearest km.

For the pics, I go to http://www.geograph.org.uk/ but enter the URL as http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NZ2564 and search for churches within that square, then select one, like:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2811028

Under the pic, in the blurb at the bottom, there's a topological map, where the blue gridlines are 1km apart, and delimit the square I'm looking at.
It corresponds to zoom level 4 on Streetmap - churches show up as + signs, maybe on top of a round blob if there's a steeple, or a square blob if there's a church tower.
Zoom level 3 is a magnified version of this.
Zoom level 2 is the same zoominess as level 3, but it's a (churchless) street map.
Zoom level 1 is the maximum zoom, and is a streetmap, with PW marking places of worship.

Mary

1911 - 26 =1885 (although it doesn't seem as though they actually married, unless it was not in England or Wales)

Patricia

'Stephanus' does not show on GR searches (or on virtually any other site) because his given name was Stephen

The Latin version appears ONLY in Church records.

Thank you Kathleen

Stephanus Brennan doesn't come up on Genes search as no one has added him to their tree with that name. If you search for Stephen Brennan then he does come up.

Genes is good for finding connections to other people's trees but is not the best site for searching for records. Their sister site - Findmypast - is better for records.

Kath. x

My grandmother died in 1953 and my grandfather married again. He died in St Josephs Home Elswick Newcastle 3/12/63 where he had been since 1959

I know his exact birthdate as it was written in one of my mothers diaries. It is all quite confusing. I know my grandfather Stephen was Roman Catholic and lived in the Byker area. He had 3 sisters which an uncle told me were called Mary Ellen, Julia and Alice. Quite close to the info Margie has found. Stephen married my grandmother Lydia Tuohey in April 1917. I ruled out misspellings as my mother and her father were Brennan on her birth certificate??? I'm fairly new to all this and getting more and more confused. Why does Stephanus Brennan not come up on Genes reunited search engine?

Sounds very plausible, Mary, but again raises more questions. Why was her name Whelan if she married Brennan the previous year? Mind you the census does show her as married but as a married daughter she should have a different surname.

Oh my! This is a confusing one! Glad it's not my family!