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I think the birth registration for Arthur Hicks Mavis posted will prove the theory one way or the other.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22, Denmark Road, Hornsey, Edmonton, Middlesex, England

Print transcription View image Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Edward Plumb Head Married Male 39 1862 Gas Stoker Hornsey, Middlesex, England Transcription
Louisa Plumb Wife Married Female 38 1863 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England Transcription
Arthur Harwood Step Son Single Male 17 1884 General Labourer Marylebone, Middlesex, England

She did give her age as 25 on marriage cert but the man she married - George Daniel Euesden was 29 at the time so she 'may' have added a couple of years to appear closer to his age ??

Dea x

Dea
That is my gt grandmother death cert my nan could not remember her birth year as gt nan always said she wasn't sure but she was 25 when she married in 1911 :-)

Thank you everyone might have to sleep on this and come back to it in the morning or evening UK time
I will keep all options open though
Thanks again

Florence's death cert does show a birth date of 1883, although I do appreciate that this is only as accurate as the informant would have believed:

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Florence Ann Euesden
Name: Florence Ann Euesden
Birth Date: 13 Mar 1883
Date of Registration: Jun 1976
Age at Death: 93
Registration district: Brentwood
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 1374

Dea x

Broomstick- I think we've confused you! We were thinking that perhaps Florence's father was Arthur Hicks, and that Louisa swapped her name to make it appear she was married.

As suggested by Christina- Arthur Hicks, occupation clerk, in the right area - might be worth keeping in mind:

1881
Arthur Hicks
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: John Hicks
Mother: Catherine Hicks
Gender: Male
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 228 Camden Mews
Occupation: Clerk
Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Kentish Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 212
Folio: 64
Page Number: 43
Household Members:
John Hicks 51
Catherine Hicks 52
Charles Hicks 20
Cecelia Hicks 18
Arthur Hicks 16

Mavis
Yes the address on the birth certificate is 53 Drummond st
I may have confused everybody
on the birth certificate of Florence Ann Churchill the mothers maiden name is Hicks
It is all very confusing :-S
The fathers occupation on the cert is commercial clerk he is named as Arthur Churchill
I still haven't found the birth certificate of Arthur born 1884/5 be it Churchill or hurwood

Just as an absolute leap in the dark - there happens to be an Arthur Hicks aged 16 - a clerk - living in St.Pancras in 1881

As far as know, you'd need to go to the London Metropolitan Archives to see the bastardy bonds, if they have them.

Was the address on the birth cert for Florence Ann the same as on the
baptism -- 53 Drummond St. --

Mavis

It never happened

Thanks Christina :-D

Gritty - Hope you didn't spend too long looking for the Hicks step-father. I thought I saw it on a previous post, but, clearly, I didn't. Just pretend that didn't happen.

I agree with your thoughts that Arthur could be Hicks.

That looks good Mavis.

this could be Arthur's birth as it says he was born Marylebone on 1891 census.

Arthur Hicks Sep Q 1884 Marylebone 1a 590

not found a bp for him

Mavis

Christina- I don't see a Hicks as a stepfather to Louisa, am I missing something? I could be being slow but I thought Louisa's parents were Henry and Ann, who still look to be alive and married in 1891.

My Great Gran was illegitimate- registered with surname Knight. Father was listed as William Knight and Mother as Emma Skelton. Father was in fact William Skelton and mother was Emma Knight- this could be a similar situation- perhaps Florence's father was Arthur Hicks??

ChristinaS
Thank you for your reply looking at the birth cert that I have it would make sense what you have said as I can find no marriage taking place between a Arthur Churchill and a Louisa Hicks
I know have sort whether or not the Louisa who married John Hurwood and Edward Plumb are one and the same
How would I find out if she took out a Bastardy order?

It looks to me that Florence and Arthur's biological father isn't going to be found - unless Louisa took a Bastardy Order against him.

His name is Arthur on the birth registration and the baptism. He was probably down as Churchill because the children had been registered under Louisa's name.

Maybe Louisa gave her step-father's name (Hicks) instead of using Churchill as she wanted to look as though she had changed her name (got married).

I know that illegitimacy was covered up long ago, I have some info from my gt grandmothers brothers family who I have just found through a web site but info is scarce
So just to clarify so that I get this right
Louisa had two children whilst married too john hurwood but he is not the father
I have not found any birth certs for either child except for the one I mentioned ?

Births Jun 1863 (>99%)


CHURCHILL Louisa Pancras 1b 66

people used to lie to cover up illegitimacy

Who was the informant?

a. I did the maths, and used what I hope was logic, in that both of Louisa's children were CHURCHILL at birth

b. because she took her stepfather's name.