Find Ancestors

I agree.

Broomstick possibly has copies of the certs which have been transcribed by the reg. office from the originals rather than photocopies of the original registers which can now be viewed on Ancestry.

Dea x

Broomstick ..."In regards to the wedding certs to my eyes all the writing looks the same ie: written by the vicar !!!!! "

Three different churches, three different vicars. There is no doubt in my mind that the signatures of Louisa Pearce and Louisa Hurwood (marrying Arthur Hearn) are by the same hand. The signature of Louisa Hurwood marrying Edward Plumb is different

Jude

Do come back onto this thread when you receive that cert so that we can see all the info together.

We are all desperate to know what info it will show.

Dea Xxx

Dea
I have the death cert of John Hurwood
It states he died in the Edmonton Union

Cause : cardiac failure congestive lung failure due to alcoholism
Informant: cert received from the deputy coroner after the inquest held 10th June 1898

In regards to the wedding certs to my eyes all the writing looks the same ie: written by the vicar !!!!!

I think that I might have to wait for the birth cert I have sent for
I keep going back to the birth cert that started all this and staring at the birth date and year the name and can't help but wonder if this is my great grandmother and the name "hicks" is a red herring

I have found an old contact I had of a relation to Arthur to see if they are stil "active" and shed anymore light on this especially the Churchill bit
I do know that Arthur did die in 1917 in France

Dea, like you I am torn....let's hope the birth certificate throws some light on things!

Jude

I still don't 'buy' this Hicks connection :-S :-( :-(

I have to go and see to Lunch but would appreciate anyone listing exactly what 'proof' we have that the name Hicks is anywhere involved.

I can only see one actual mention of this name which is on that birth cert in the opening post ??? And that is saying that Louisa's name was Hicks and that Arthur was a Churchill ???

Dea Xxx

Arthur Hicks and family 1901


Name:
Arthur Hicks

Age:
36

Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1865

Relation to Head:
Head

Gender:
Male

Spouse:
Anna Hicks

Father:
John Hicks

Mother:
Catherine Hicks

Birth Place:
Camden, London, England

Civil Parish:
Islington

Ecclesiastical parish:
St Peter

County/Island:
London

Registration district:
Islington

Sub-registration District:
Upper Holloway

Piece:
158

Folio:
95

Page Number:
4

Household schedule number:
26


Arthur Hicks 36
Anna Hicks 36 ?? was a wd and 38y on marriage 1890
Evlin Daniel 22 lodger
Albert Longford 24 lodger
John Hicks 72
Catherine Hicks 72
------------------------------------------------------
Arthur Hicks bp 11th Aug 1872 [late] born 10th September 1864 to
John and Catherine Hicks - Coachman - 228 Camden Mews. St Pancras.

Arthur Hicks remarried 1916 to spinster Mabel Elizabeth Layers 27y no children.
he died 1945 80y buried Stanmore - Harrow of 26 Meads Road - Edgware.

Mavis

Some good sleuthing while I have been away!

Thinking logically.....it is almost inconceivable that Louisa Mark II would be the one in 1881 with John, living as his wife and then remain living with him until his death whilst having two children by (maybe) Arthur Hicks!

So the 1881 Louisa must be Louisa Mark I - but the Louisa Hurwood visiting the Smiths is certainly her so - total conjecture, and given it is only two years from when she marries bigamously to Arthur Stearn - maybe the schism in her marriage to John Hurwood had already happened and he gave the details to the enumerator as if she was still living there. Would explain the incorrect birth date.

Good point about the signatures...Louisa Pearce 1874 and Louisa Hurwood 1883 are undoubtedly the same person (pen a bit heavier in the first marriage) but Louisa could be laid over each other.

Anyway suspect this is what happened to Arthur Hicks

Marriages Jun 1890 (>99%)
Gutkaess Anna Bertha K Pancras 1b 185 Scan available - click to view
HICKS Arthur Pancras 1b 185 Scan available - click to view

Name: Arthur Hicks
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Age: 30
Spouse: Anna Bartha Kerstine Gatkeron
Spouse Age: 38
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 May 1890
Parish: Regent's Park St Mark
Borough: Camden
Father Name: John Hicks
Spouse Father: Emile Gatkeron
Register Type: Parish Register

John HIcks "Car Proprietor" - suspect Arthur took over the business by 1891 census

Jude

I've just looked it up.

The Grove, Chapel Street changed it's name to Chapel Grove. I don't think the grove is there any more but on the map it is shown as being off Chapel Road, which is still there. In Marylebone.

ChristinaS- the baptism for Louisa Pearce- The Grove, Chapple Street, is that the same place as Chapel Grove as listed on the 1881 with John Hurwood?

Do I take it that you have the death cert of John Hurwood as you know the cause of death?

Did Louisa sign as the informant?

If so, Have you compared the signature to any of the two Louisa's marriage certs

Just a thought....

Dea x

ndon, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Louisa Pearce
Name: Louisa Pearce
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 11 Aug 1859
Father's Name: William Pearce - a glazier
Mother's name: Mary Ann Pearce
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

The Grove, Chapel Street

(So under St.Pancras after all)

Plus a sister, Mary, born 1858. Baptised on the same day

Burial Register summary
Hurwood John
Burial date 13 June 1898
Authority London Borough of Camden
Location St Pancras Cemetery (Camden)


https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

(saw above folks, if relating anywhere!, might help with others Islington/Pancras area!)

Chris :)

Louisa Churchill bp 29th April 1863 born 7th April 1863 - Henry and Ann
Churchill - 22 Judd Street - Labourer - St Pancras

Mavis

I will certainly do so mind you the post from the UK is taking up to three weeks to arrive !!!!!!!!!!! :-D

Broomstick- please tell us all when certificate arrives!! Finger's crossed it is related

I have just ordered the birth cert of Arthur Hicks born 1884 lets see what this shows!!!!!!!!!

The find of the baby of Louisa is a find

Will keep going

Oh well found Gritty. One problem solved.

Mavis - the Arthur Hicks we found earlier was a clerk. He would have been 19 when Arthur Hurwood/Churchill was born.

Chapel Grove is very much in Marylebone nowadays. But I don't know how far the St.Pancras area would have stretched in the 1880s. I wouldn't have thought it would have reached that far though.

EDIT: Didn't see the above when I posted :-)

The first child wasn't born until 1884 - and this is what ChristinaS found earlier in the thread that we thought could be a possibility:

1881
Arthur Hicks
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: John Hicks
Mother: Catherine Hicks
Gender: Male
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 228 Camden Mews
Occupation: Clerk
Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Kentish Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 212
Folio: 64
Page Number: 43
Household Members:
John Hicks 51
Catherine Hicks 52
Charles Hicks 20
Cecelia Hicks 18
Arthur Hicks 16

Been looking for a suitable Arthur Hick[s] -- but those in London seem
to be to young in 1881 to be a father ????

Broomstick says on the birth cert he was a Commercial clerk

Mavis