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Thank you for that - page 62 wouldn't load earlier frustratingly!

I think sorting out all of these Henry Tolsons is going to be troublesome but also interesting!

Thank you for starting me off!

I will keep this updated!

Morning Post 08 October 1822

Major Tolson has been to Bridekirke, Papcastle and Brundholme, in the county of Cumberland and made his entries upon the lands, which he claims as tenant in tail male, and heir at law of the late Henry Tolson Esq. of Wood Hall in the aforesaid parish, created by Settlement dated 18th June 1673; and he also claims to be heir at law of the Henry Tolson Esq. who had the manors of Bridekirke and Brundholme, granted to him from KING HENRY the EIGHTH, in the 35th year of his reign, and to the late Richard Tolson Esq. who had the manor of Papcastle granted to him by QUEEN ELIZABETH in the 33rd year of her reign.

As it's been a while since I was looking at the Tolson/ Poole stuff I'm losing the plot on what's related and what's not. So forgive me if we covered this but thought I'd add it.

Index to Death Duty Registers Transcription

Henry Tolson
Death year 1807
Residence PAPCASTLE
Court York Exchequer Court
Record set Index to Death Duty Registers 1796-1903
TNA ref IR27/92

Lancaster Gazette 12 December 1807
DIED.
[Monday Night]
Same day at Papcastle near Cockermouth, Henry Tolson Esq. at an advanced age.

The 1712 christening was from familysearch.org - I should be on the Bridekirk register:


Henry Tolson
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 07 Oct 1712
Christening Place: BRIDEKIRK,CUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
Father's Name:Henry Tolson
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:P00194-1 ,System Origin: England-ODM ,GS Film number:0924748 IT 1

It's on page 62 of 222 of the Bridekirk transcript.

Also looking at those parish registers is concerning me slightly - A Henry Tolson is baptising children in William (1723) Hannah (1727), William (1730), Mary (1732), Ann (1741), Elizabeth (1741) and Henry (1745).

I wonder if Henry was widowed between 1732 and then marrying Ann Simpson in 1737?

But if Henry was born 1712 ... that makes him very young to marry!

Although we do know Henry born 1712 was the son of ANOTHER Henry:

1745.
Mar. 28. Henry s. of Henry Tolson Junr. of PapCastle.

If you can find and share that 1712 baptism it would be great!

Thank you both again - the Bridekirk transcriptions are taking an age to load, specially for 1712! I should get out of the house and do some work really!

Thank you also for the connection to Lancashire Archives - I did look up POOLE in the indexes when I was last at Carlisle but nothing but this explains it now! The land they held fell under different court boundaries.

I know I have received a lot of help from you but if you can help ascertain the parents of Henry Tolson born 1712 it would help. Can you spot it on the Bridekirk link? Not sure why it isn't loadng!

Sorry, didn't realise there'd been so many replies:

Re the Index to Death Duty Registers Transcriptions posted on page 2- they are from FMP, but no further information is provided.

The transciptions provide information of the courts- the 1808 for John Poole was under Chester Deanry Courts Of Amounderness, Copeland, Furness, Kendall And Lonsdale, which I believe comes under Lancashire rather than Cumbria. So maybe Lancashire records office could offer further help.

http://new.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-record-office/search-the-archives/lancat.aspx

You shouldn't need to plough through it - use your search tools for the surnames...

I will look into Find My Past - might be worth. Some of the Tolson families go back to about the 9th Century but of course, I want to connect to the correct one. Would be interesting to see which one.

Also, no, sorry I had missed the Cleater Museum document. Will look now.

Not sure if you've found this publication from Cleator Museum - it has transcribed the Bridekirk parish registers:

http://www.cockermouthmuseumgroup.org.uk/MI_bridedir.pdf

May help, for instance it has the marriage: 3 Nov 1761, John Poole of Isell and Mary Tolson of Bridkirk, witness Henry Tolson.

Another avenue - Find my past has an offer on for 1 months membership for £1, you could register for a month so you can see the info found by Gritty. But don't forget to cancel before it automatically renews at full price.

Hmmmm I should make anothe visit there. Is seems to be quite sketchy after Henry Tolson's birth in 1712. Need a harder look.

Again thank you so much for this help!

Peter

I'm not 100% sure if Mary (1732) is Isabella's mother - but it looks likely - although we only have baptism dates for the Poole children, rather that birth dates.

Looking on NA site, they don't appear to have the other wills you are looking for - they do have some information relating to documents kept at Cumbria archives. I can't see them on ancestry either, so maybe Gritty will come back with some more info from FMP.

Cumbria archives, if you search, have a copy of a will for Henry Tolson dated 1761 (ref: PROB/1761/W152) - maybe the father buried 19/11/1767? Search the archives on CASCAT (link previously posted) you'll find quite a lot on the Tolson's of Papcastle - including records of sales relating to some of the properties mentioned in Henry's will.

I think your search will need a visit to the Carlisle records office!

Ok thinking all over now - RE the wills for Henry Tolson 1808 (will buy for TNA). But can I also purchase the ones of John Poole (1808), Margaret Tolson (1814) and Mary Poole (1817).

Would be fabulous if so.

With that, I'm not sure about the marriage of Henry Tolson and Ann Simpson in 1737 - my ancestor Mary Tolson Poole (1732-1817) was born a while before that, and surely such a wealthy family couldn't have suvived an illegitimacy scandel?

Plus I am sure Henry (c 1712-1767) is mentioned on the baptism as the father.

I'm also curious about the Woodhall scandall in the newspapers ... hmmm, I've been looking for baptism for Henry Tolson born c. 1712 and there is one but also another few possibilities. Seems to be a common name.

Any ideas how to link back to that next generation?

You've got me hooked me here! So exciting!

Peter

Wow, wow, wow - firstly, sorry for my late reply! I've started a new job and in work accoodation so without internet until yesterday and just logged on. Imagine my delight to see all of this fabulous work! Wow, not sure where to start!

I'm so grateful for all of this. Errr, so it seems am connected to the Tolson, but how odd for there to have been so much wealth and then Henry's Poole's (1767-1819) grandson to have ended up in Carlisle Workhouse as a vagrant. How strange.

Still, his mother had an older illegitimate child in 1808 and perhaps that caused frictions, and perhaps a disinheritence? How sad.

So, we are confident then that Mary Tolson born 1732 is the mother of Isabella born 1783? Even though she was 51? I've know of a 48 year old woman having a baby but not over 50. Is that possible? Likely in those days?

Ahh thank you so much again. Going to try and diges this lot!

I really shouldn't do sums when I've had a long day :-D

Flip, I'll take another look tomorrow- but think you might have calculated wrong age for Mary- if she was born in 1732 she would've been 51 in 1783 when Isabella was born.

Thinking about it more - I'm sure Mary (1732) is not the Mary who married John Poole in 1861. Maybe this Mary died and there was a later sister Mary - Henry Tolson obviously had a sister Mary who married John Poole (the will proves that) but a later Mary. Otherwise she couldn't have had all those children.

Also, why only leave estate to Mary's children - I would assume he didn't have any other siblings (other than Elizabeth, ch 26/8/1741 and buried with their parents and unmarried).

Not looked at any of this latest info in any great detail yet as am back at work this week. The one problem I have, if the baptism for Mary Tolson is correct (which I posted 14/9/14 11:24) ie 9/2/1732, then how could she have had Isabella in 1783 when she was 59, and also some of the younger children?

Am comfortable with Henry's baptism as it ties in with his death and will.

Now we know Mary Tolson married John Poole and had all those children, including Henry who we believe to be "THE" Henry, but I think I've skipped a generation in her birth - the one I've posted must be from her father's generation surely?

Do we have a death or will for Mary Poole (nee Tolson) yet to establish her age - she was obviously still alive in 1808 when Henry Tolson's will was proved.

This death fits with the 1778 baptism of Tolson Poole

Published: Liverpool Mercury 17 October 1845
DIED
Oct. 9th aged 67, Mr Tolson Poole, formerly tanner at Cockermouth and father of Mr Braithwaite Poole of this town.

I've been looking through the papers- Not sure if it relates to your Tolsons but there seems to be some dispute over the estate of a Henry Tolson of WoodHall which extends over quite a few years. Might be worth looking into.