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Closest I can find in any combination of his name, there are a couple of other C J Clarke's that might fit although none with 1864 as birth year......

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Charles J Clarke
Birth Date: abt 1863
Date of Registration: Mar 1924
Age at Death: 61
Registration district: Bromley
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 902

I don't know if you have seen this, original image shows marriage cert in register.

Dorset, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
Name: Georgiana Hanriet Woodland
Birth Year: abt 1869
Age: 21
Marriage or Bann Date: 12 Oct 1890
Parish: Charminster
Spouse's Name: Charles Joseph Clark
Spouse's Father's Name: Joseph Charles Clark

Misty x

think we are agreed that Mabel was georgina we don't know who her father was so will get her birth cert in case it names him on there, fanny was on the 1871 census as a servant they had a son a bit younger than her so perhaps she seduced him lol. not one of us can find charles clarke's death so we don't know if she was a bigimist. perhaps we will never know as you say wonder if ben knew, as she got married as Mabel is that against the law? so she never told anyone her secret of who she really was, if only we could go back in time to see what really Happened.
thank you all so much at least I know more than Idid.
regards Jackie
ps on 1881 census when they were all in the workhouse there was a alice woodland age 21 if she was fannys child she must have been really young when she had her, the elizabeth is william's brothers child not fanny's. x

Its Alice Woodward not Woodland 21ys born Dorchester, Dorset.

I would doubt very much Georgina's birth cert will show fathers name if her baptism and marriage cert don't ......I noticed witnesses on original marriage register were Elizabeth and Charles Francis, I wonder if they are her sister and hubby....

Come back to us if we can further assist in your research.....

Misty x

I think you will find that Georgina's birth certificate will imply that Fanny's husband is the father. On the baptism it only gives his surname. If you are going to spend money on a certificate I think Mabel's marriage certificate would be more interesting. I wonder if she stated widow or single......

sorry misty must have read it wrong,Elizabeth was not fannys child she was william's brothers daughter.

georgina could'nt have been fanny's husbands because he was already dead when she was born, i will let you know wether it says single or widow rootsgatherer thanks for your help.
Jackie x

Here's the granddaughter living with Fanny in 1891


Name: Ann Elizabeth Woodland
Baptism Date: 19 Aug 1886
Baptism Place: West Fordington, Dorset, England
Mother's name: Emma Woodland

Baptised in the Workhouse. Abode Charminster, same as Georgina gave on her marriage to Charles Joseph.




Name: Emma Jane Woodland
Birth Year: abt 1869
Age: 22
Marriage or Bann Date: 5 May 1891
Parish: Iwerne Steepleton
Father's Name: William Woodland
Spouse's Name: Walter Philip Marshall


1911

1911 England Census about Emma Jane Marshall
Name: Emma Jane Marshall
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Plush, Dorset
Civil Parish: East Pennard
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address: East Pennard, Shepton Mallet, Somerset
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 20
Estimated Marriage Year: 1891
Occupation: Letetr Carrier
Registration district: Shepton Mallet
Registration District Number: 312
Sub-registration district: Evercreech
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 37
Piece: 14514
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Philip Marshall 42
Emma Jane Marshall 42
William Walter Henry Marshall 17
Gertrude Mary Marshall 14

Married 20 years, 4 children born, 4 living.

Hi folks.......I'm a little confused ( easily done tee hee)

Where does Williams brothers daughter figure in the mix, have I missed something.....as I read it all......

Fanny's children were......with husband who died 1869

William 1865
Henry 1867
Emma Jane 1868
Frances Ann1869

Fanny's children with unknown father were

Georgina Harriet 1872 ( who we believe "became"Mabel)
Elizabeth 1875 (this is who I think could be witness on Georgina's marriage cert to first husband.....which is available to view on Ancestry)

Ann Elizabeth is daughter of Emma Jane and unknown father, so granddaughter of Georgina....as on 1891 census and info added by Rootgatherer below....

What are your thoughts?

Misty x

Misty

This is the Elizabeth that was in the Workhouse at the same time as Fanny and her daughters

1881 England Census about Elizabeth Woodland
Name: Elizabeth Woodland
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relationship to Head: Pauper
Gender: Female
Where born: Warmwell, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Fordington
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street address: "Union Workhouse"
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Dorchester
Sub-registration district: Dorchester
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2111
Folio: 94
Page Number: 36


And this looks like her baptism

Name: Elizabeth Jane Woodland
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 15 Nov 1874
Baptism Place: Warmwell, Dorset, England
Father: George Woodland
Mother: Julia Hannah
FHL Film Number: 1239253
Reference ID: item 9 p 35

Name: George Woodland
Age: Full Age
Marriage or Bann Date: 15 Jun 1871
Parish: Stinsford
Father's Name: Robert Woodland
Spouse's Name: Julia Anna Russell Bane
Spouse's Father's Name: William Bane


Looks like George may have died and Julie remarried?

Name: Julia Hannah R Woodland
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Dorchester
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Dorset
Volume: 5a
Page: 523

Records on Page:
Name
Julia Hannah R Woodland
Eliza Helen Brymer
Crawford James M Conybeare
John Groves Vencent


.???

Name: George Woodland
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Registration Year: 1875
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 24
Registration district: Dorchester
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Dorset
Volume: 5a
Page: 243

Only other child for them?

Name: Geoffrey George Woodland
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 7 Jan 1872
Christening Place: Stinsford, Dorset, England
Father's Name: George Woodland
Mother's name: Julia Russell

Looks like he died in the Workhouse

Name: Geoffrey George Woodland
Birth Year: abt 1871
Age: 10
Burial Date: 12 Mar 1881
Burial Place: Puddletown, Dorset, England

Julie's in the Workhouse too in 1881

1881 England Census about Julia Vincent
Name: Julia Vincent
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Pauper
Gender: Female
Where born: Ilsington, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Fordington
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street address: "Union Workhouse"
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Dorchester
Sub-registration district: Dorchester
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2111
Folio: 93
Page Number: 33

Julia also died in the Workhouse. So looks like the family were there because they were ill and couldn't afford a doctor.

Name: Julia Vincent
Birth Year: abt 1851
Age: 30
Burial Date: 3 May 1881
Burial Place: Puddletown, Dorset, England

Oh dear...Thank you Rootgatherer, apologies for misleading...

One of my rules whilst researching stuff is....."never just assume" that's exactly what I did, because Elizabeth was where Fanny etc were I assumed she was one of them and didn't follow her.....then when I saw marriage cert with an Elizabeth as witness, again I assumed!!!!!

New rule made....Always follow own rules!!!

Mist x

Edit....Julia's is a tragic tale.......

Its a tragic tale about all of them , i,m getting ben and mabels m/c in a couple of days because where they married is not far from me, so going to the register office in wolverhampton. will let you know the outcome.
you two are great still helping thank you
Jackie

That's good Jackie. Looking forward to hearing what's on that marriage certificate. I just hope we're on the right track.

I too look forward to hearing details from the cert and echo Rootgathers hopes we are on the correct track...

I have to say I have really enjoyed our hunt for the truth but yes your right Jackie, it is a tragic tale, whatever lead to the circumstances we have unearthed must have caused those involved so much heartache....

Misty x

Yes, so sad for Julie. Losing first her husband then her son. I do think though that it was illness rather than poverty that led them to the Workhouse. In those days things like TB could so quickly wipeout a family. These are the findings when researching family history that sure make me count my blessings today. So many of our ancestors had such hard times by today's standards. Many of the men worked long hours at hard physical work and the women had so many babies to rear without all the mod cons of today. No wonder then that at 60 they were often old and infirm, if they were lucky enough to live to that age.

yes rootgatherer, they had really hard lives if they were unlucky to be poor, When you think what we have today the woman didn't need to go to gym's because they worked so hard.
we lived with my nan and didn't have a lot of things like hot water loo at the bottom of the yard, black leaded grate which we had a tin bath in front of, didn't have a proper bath unill I was 13 my nan had a fish and chip shop in which my nan and mom worked really hard and my dad went to work didn't make a lot of money but we had a good life.
It must have been awful for them having to go into workhouses through no fault of there own except lack of money and watching their childreen die we have come a long way but not all for the good.

Hi misty and rootgatherer getting cert tomorrow so will let you know
regards Jackie

Thank you Jackie. You being able to collect it has fairly cut the waiting time. Eager to know if Mabel describes herself as single and if she names a father.