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hi all
i wonder if any one could help me find mary ann burns born about 1822(durham) who married alexander scott also born about 1822 (scotland). they married on the 8th april 1851 at the parish church of sunderland. according to the marriage cert she is 28 and he is 20 but their ages could be incorrect(with reference to census records). alexander is a marriner but no proffession recorded for mary. there residence is showing church street(both of them) and marys father is called james burns, and profession is a papermaker.

i have found mary on the census records up to 1861(after she married) and confirmation of that is that her mother is on the census records as widowed mary burns.
i carnt seem to find her birth or the rest of the burn family going futher back.
i did stumble on a site( cached page) which stated mary ann burns had a sister called elizabeth robinson burns (the robinson was supposed to have come from the mothersmaiden name but couldnt be proved, according to that page but i carnt find it anymore.
bit long winded i know but if anyone could help me i would apprechiate it
kind
regards
sean

1822 is too early for birth records. You can only hope for a baptism, which you may find by looking at the familysearch site

For reference, is this her in 1861 - seaman's wife, he is absent at time of census:



Mary H Scott
[Mary A Scott]
Age:38
Estimated birth year:1823
Relation:Wife
Gender:Female
Where born:Durham, England
Civil Parish:Sunderland
Town:Sunderland
County/Island:Durham
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district:Sunderland
Sub-registration district:West Sunderland
ED, institution, or vessel:5
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household schedule number:273
Piece:3780
Folio:68
Page Number:51
Household Members:NameAge

Mary H Scott 38
Mary Scott 8
Alexander Scott 1
Elizabeth R Scott 1

And welcome to the boards Sean!

EDIT: If it is the right person, someone else is researching them to have added the correction - ancestry user KathleenGill2 submitted it in July 2013.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census



Household Information

Street WARREN STREET
Parish SUNDERLAND
Town SUNDERLAND
City SUNDERLAND
County Durham
Country ENGLAND
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 5
Municipal Ward EAST
Parliamentary Borough SUNDERLAND
Registration District SUNDERLAND
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Person 1

First Name JOSEPH
Last Name DOUTHWAITE
Birth Year 1854
Age 17
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County NORTHUMBERLAND
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household LODGER
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 2

First Name THOMAS G
Last Name DOUTHWAITE
Birth Year 1846
Age 25
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County NORTHUMBERLAND
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household LODGER
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 3

First Name MARY
Last Name BURNS
Birth Year 1793
Age 78
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County COUNTY DURHAM
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household RELATIVE
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 4

First Name ALEXANDER
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1822
Age 49
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County SCOTLAND
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household HEAD
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 5

First Name MARY A
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1822
Age 49
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County COUNTY DURHAM
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household WIFE
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 6

First Name MARY
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1853
Age 18
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County COUNTY DURHAM
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household DAUGHTER
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 7

First Name ALEXANDER
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1860
Age 11
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County COUNTY DURHAM
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household SON
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 8

First Name ELIZABETH
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1860
Age 11
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County COUNTY DURHAM
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household DAUGHTER
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

Person 9

First Name JOHN V
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1863
Age 8
Birth Place
Birth Town
Birth County COUNTY DURHAM
Gender Male
Relationship To Head of Household SON
Occupation
Condition
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 26
Page 51
Piece Number 5015

The woman's father's name was James, according to her marriage cert

Yes, not sure about you Ricochet, but I can't find them prior to her marriage, so father may have died before 1841.

Sean, do you have the names of the witnesses to the marriage - see if they are connected to Mary Ann?

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census



Household Information

Street WARREN STREET
Parish SUNDERLAND
Town
City
County Durham
Country ENGLAND
Registration District SUNDERLAND
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain

Person 1

First Name MARY
Last Name TELL
Birth Year 1853
Age 28
Birth Place
Birth Town SUNDERLAND
Birth County DURHAM
Relationship To Head of Household DAUGHTER
Gender Female
Occupation
Condition MARRIED
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 156
Page 53
Piece Number 5000

Person 2

First Name JOHN L
Last Name TELL
Birth Year 1878
Age 3
Birth Place
Birth Town SUNDERLAND
Birth County DURHAM
Relationship To Head of Household GRAND SON
Gender Male
Occupation CHILD
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 156
Page 53
Piece Number 5000

Person 3

First Name JAMES
Last Name TELL
Birth Year 1881
Age 0
Birth Place
Birth Town SUNDERLAND
Birth County DURHAM
Relationship To Head of Household GRAND SON
Gender Male
Occupation CHILD
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 156
Page 53
Piece Number 5000

Person 4

First Name MARY A
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1822
Age 59
Birth Place
Birth Town SUNDERLAND
Birth County DURHAM
Relationship To Head of Household HEAD
Gender Female
Occupation
Condition WIDOW
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 156
Page 53
Piece Number 5000

Person 5

First Name ALEXANDER
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1860
Age 21
Birth Place
Birth Town SUNDERLAND
Birth County DURHAM
Relationship To Head of Household SON
Gender Male
Occupation ENGINE FITTER
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 156
Page 53
Piece Number 5000

Person 6

First Name ELIZABETH
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1860
Age 21
Birth Place
Birth Town SUNDERLAND
Birth County DURHAM
Relationship To Head of Household DAUGHTER
Gender Female
Occupation MILLINER
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 156
Page 53
Piece Number 5000

Person 7

First Name JOHN VALENTINE
Last Name SCOTT
Birth Year 1863
Age 18
Birth Place
Birth Town SUNDERLAND
Birth County DURHAM
Relationship To Head of Household SON
Gender Male
Occupation ENGINE MAN (DRIVER)
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG11
Folio 156
Page 53
Piece Number 5000

EDIT Ignore this - father is incorrect - will leave for elimiation purposes.

I think this may be Alexander just before his marriage, does the father's name fit with the marriage cert?

Alexander Scott
Age:22
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relation:Son
Father's Name:John Scott
Gender:Male
Where born:Monk Wearmouth, Durham, England
Civil Parish:Monkwearmouth Shore
Ecclesiastical parish:St Peter
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town:Sunderland
County/Island:Durham
Country:England
Street address:Occupation:Condition as to marriage:Disability: View image
Registration district:Sunderland
Sub-registration district:Monk
ED, institution, or vessel:2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number:78
Piece:2398
Folio:159
Page Number:21
Household Members:NameAge
John Scott 55 <<occ house carpenter, born Scotland
Alexander Scott 22 <<occupation Mariner
Elizabeth Beammon 30 <<daughter, married & mariners wife
George Cairns 23 <<nephew
James C Gray 5 <<grandson
Mary G Brammon 1 Mo <<grandaughter

Hello Sean and welcome to the Community boards.




I'll let Sean know how to find his way back to his replies. :-)

hi
thanx for the quick replies..
on the marriage cert the witnesses are Robert Campbell and George Lord..

alexander scott father is thomas scott and his profession is cotton weaver, and yes that is the mary that i have in my tree above living in warren st.

regards
sean

also that cached page on internet which i carnt find now said that alexander and his twin elizabeth got christened/baptised on the same day as their cousin john sinclair.
so i am assuming that mary ann burns sister elizabeth got married to a bloke who surname called sinclair and appently he was also a seaman/sailor etc.
regards
sean

Hi Sean, it could have been a cousin on his father's side though who was called Sinclair - he would also have been a cousin. And don't put too much reliance on other people's findings - they are often proved to be wrong!

Do you have where Alexander and Elizabeth were baptised?

no i dont have where they were baptised....and yeah i understand not to take other peoples findings as gospel it was just that was the only thing that i came across at that time....
i even put in one of the sites that i am on to do a search on the church street address on the 1851 census and there was a mary ann burn there but she was married to someone called burns which was a bit spooky haha
but if anything just more confusion

Here is a John Sinclair of the right age - father is a Master Mariner:



.

.
.








1861 England Census
Elizabeth Sinclair
Age:29
Estimated birth year:1832
Relation:Wife
Gender:Female
Where born:Washington, Durham, England
Civil Parish:Bishopwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish:St Paul
County/Island:Durham
Country:England

Elizabeth Sinclair 29 - Master Mariner's wife
John Sinclair

Ive been thinking about the 1871 census where it has Mary burns 1793 living at warren street with the rest of the family...i automatically thought she would have been mary a scotts mother but it only says relative...
i know mary a scott father is called james burns as it is on the marriage cert...could this possibly be an aunty etc...as the only birth i have been able to find with regards to her sister elizabeth in sunderland with a james burn being the father but the mother is called elizabeth campbell,,
and as i stated above on marys marriage cert one of the witness is also called campbell
"clutching at straws i think" :-S

Yes, but on1861 census Mary Burns is stated to be Mary Ann Scott's widowed mother - although not transcribed with the family on the image she is with them. So I think that straw is not the right one.

Mary Burns
Age:67
Estimated birth year:1794
Relation:Mother <<<<
Gender:Female
Where born:Durham, England
Civil Parish:Sunderland
Town:Sunderland
County/Island:Durham
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: <<Widow <<<
View image
Registration district:Sunderland
Sub-registration district:West Sunderland
ED, institution, or vessel:5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number:273
Piece:3780
Folio:68
Page Number:51
Household Members:
NameAge

Mary Burns 67

Listed directly below and in the same household as Mary Ann Scott in 1861.

one may have to think outside the box ..................

maybe her father was NOT called James Burns


We quite often find that father's names are wrong on marriage certificates, for one of the following reasons ................



the person was illegitimate, but it looked better to have a father's name on the certificate. So the name picked for the "father" may be the grandfather's (or another relative) name, it may be the name of someone well known in the town or village, it may be an amalgam


The person might have been legitimate, but the father either died or left the family very early ............. so the child(ren) have no knowledge of him. So they guess.


It really does get very complicated at times!!

ohhhh gawd..even more confused...but many thanx