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Ann-Marie,

Was your father & Mona brought up by their mother? If so, did your father ever talk about his family - often memories, however vague, can be clues. For instance do you ever remember any aunts/uncles/cousins on dad's side?

Jude has a point, the date could be when the photo was taken does the dress/surroundings give you an idea if this could be the case - also does it have a photographers name (often rubber stamped on the back) that we could check out? And finally, how exactly is the other family member who had the photo related to your father - to help establish why they have the photo and whether the information is accurate.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to establish how to further this search.

The photo can't have been taken in 1901 - Thomas & Mona weren't born until 1917.

How old do the people in the photo look?

I's so confusing isn't it! Have had a look at Monday St 1911, this is the only vague find, and as far as I can tell there is no link to a Sarah Bell:

1911 England Census

Name: Tom Bell
Age in 1911: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Corbridge Parish, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Elswick
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address: 158 Monday Street Newcastle
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Tailor
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Registration District Number: 558
Sub-registration district: Elswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Piece: 30612
Household Members:
Name Age
Tom Bell 47
Elizabeth Ann Bell 54
Ernest Christopher Bell 16
Henry Hollands Turner

Did the birth certificate give her occupation?

Ann-Marie - Just a thought....could it be a photo of Sarah Bell IN 1901?

Jude

Yes ChristinaS, one the back of the photo was the name Sarah Bell 1901 then underneath an arrow pointing to the right with the names Thomas and Mona Arnott, then an arrow pointing left with the names Doris, Katherine, Margaret and Ronnie Scott.

I think as brummiejan,and also Shirley previously listed Sarah was much older and this is the right Sarah?? Perhaps she still used the surname Arnott after her husband James died in 1915 ,hence the name Sarah Arnott on the birth certificate??

Ann-Marie can you tell us why you believe Sarah was born in 1901 please. Was that written on the photo you have?

EDIT many apologies, this has been suggested before! Not sure if the death was put as a possibility, will delete if so.

Ann Marie, something of a long shot, but have you considered this at all? This Sarah would be much older obviously. Monday St. does come under Elswick.

Having said that, why would she give her maiden name as Arnott! Suspect I am just complicating matters.

Marriages Sep 1906 (>99%)
Arnott James Newcastle T. 10b 255
Bell Sarah Newcastle T. 10b 255
MACLENNAN Margaret Newcastle T. 10b 255
TRAIN Charles Henry Newcastle T. 10b 255

Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
Arnott Catherine Bell Newcastle T. 10b 134

Births Mar 1914 (>99%)
ARNOTT Maggie Bell Newcastle T 10b 150


Deaths Sep 1915 (>99%)
Arnott James 36 Newcastle T 10b 110


1911 England Census
Name: Sarah Arnott
Age in 1911: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Durham, England
Civil Parish: Elswick
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address: 46 Darnell St N Cle
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Registration District Number: 558
Sub-registration district: Elswick

James Arnott 31
Sarah Arnott 27
Doris Arnott 4

Jan

At last I have my Fathers birth cert. Did not give me the answers I really wanted.

States mothers name just as Sarah Arnott.

Address 140A Monday Street Newcastle.

Nothing at all under Fathers details.

Nothing at the moment seems to tie up with the original details???Have tried searching but have not found anything new....

Ann Marie :-(

Thank you Dea for that advice.

Birth cert ordered today. Will be dispatched on the 17th. Can't wait to see what information it has. Hopefully good news to help me on my way!

Will let you know the details.

Ann-Marie x

Look forward to hearing the details.

DO come back to this thread though rather than start a new one.

In case you can't find it - look to the left of the boards under 'Tools' and click on 'my threads' and it will bring up a list of all the threads you have started or posted on so you will be able to open up the thread from there.

Dea Xxx

Potty, will do! X

Ann-Marie, please come back when you have the birth cert and tell us what it says.

THANK YOU all so much for your help!! I am going to go online and order the birth cert straight away. It will be interesting to see what it states, and if Sarah is my Grand Mother.

Shirley, I found the name on the back of an old photo??

Thank you all again

Ann-Marie x

Ann-Marie, Shirley has posted the reference numbers you need to purchase your father's birth cert. This is the site to order all certs from - Costs £9.25 if you tick the box asking if you have the references:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/

This site is the one most of use for looking for BMDs

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

and 3 possible marriages come up - is one of them your father's?

Marriages Jun 1938 (>99%)
Arnott Thomas G Creaser Hull 9d 385 Scan available - click to view

Marriages Mar 1942 (>99%)
Arnott Thomas G Wilson-Smith Bath 5c 1797 Scan available - click to view

Marriages Sep 1945 (>99%)
Arnott Thomas G T Williams Surrey Mid.E. 2a 609

I would get the birth cert first as he may not have named a father on the marriage one.

Hello Ann-Marie, it's just as easy to order certificates online from GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

There's a box to tick if the GRO references are known - they are on the birth records that Shirley and Brummiejan posted further up the page. Certificates cost £9.25

You can order the certs on line here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Just follow the instructions and if you get stuck, ask on here for help.

They will each cost £9.25p (other sites charge MUCH more).

You will need to tick to say you have the reference numbers and put those in when you apply.

This would be the detail (as posted above) for the birth cert:

Name: Thomas G R Arnott
Mother's Maiden Surname: Arnott
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne

Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 105


You can find the ref numbers for the marriage on FreeBMD site but if you have problems just post the details on here and we will look it up for you.

Dea Xxx

So the marriage of a sarah bell to arnott in 1906 can't be the right couple if she was born in 1901

How have you got to her if you don't have any certs ?

Yes you do need to get your dads birth cert .it will give his mums name and the address where he was born which we may be able to pick up on the 1911 census

Can't see though how she is Sarah Bell as the mmn is Armott on the birth record indicating the mum was unmarried .

Thank you all for your replies and help, something that I'm sure that I am going to need as I have only just started. Already I have made a huge mistake as I wrote that the DOB for Sarah Bell was 1910 ,when is should have read 1901. I am sorry for any time wasted, but having said that you have given me some very significant information.

Dea, you asked if I had details from my Father's birth cert, and his marriage cert. At the moment I don't have them. Would this be the next port of call for me to obtain a copy? Do you apply to the relevant Parish direct?

Thank you all again for your help.

Ann-Marie