Find Ancestors

Flip, that's what I was thinking - perhaps George Scott was away at war so unable to accompany Sarah for the registration of the twins.

Mavis, that could have been a different Sarah Arnott. There were a few around.

It now looks like she had illigetamte twins in 1917 after her husband died, so it isn't unreasonable that she had another illegitimate child after this but father went to the birth registration? Just thinking we are talking about war years - and nothing is impossible.

The preamble on the Wards directory is that it covers the period 1910-1919 (although published 1916).

I would hazard a guess that the 1947 marriage between Sarah Arnott and George Scott is them and it may have only been then that Scott was free to marry her.

Thinking about Kitty/Kathleen - is it not that the sister Catherine/Kathleen married a Ronnie and that's where his name comes into it?

There is a tree on Ancestry that has Doris Arnott as a child of James Arnott and
Christina Straughan [1885]

A James Arnott married Christina Straughan Dec 1917 Glendale ,Northumberland

would it be wise to get the death cert. of the James Arnott to make sure its the
James Arnott who married Sarah Bell ??

Was there a reason perhaps why if Sarah didn't marry George Scott till 1947
-- if that is the right one.

Mavis

Marie, that's a great find and I think more or less confirms we are onto the right family - even though he was dead before the directory was published.

So Ann-Marie, on the back of the photo were the names in a list or along side each other?

What I'm getting at is if it was a list and the Scott name was only recorded against Ronnie then he/she may have been born later - and the earlier children Doris, Catherine & Maggie were Arnotts rather than Scotts. Just trying to use a bit of logic to help solve the problem of interpreting the words your father put on the back of the photo.

Thinking about it, do you have a copy of the photo (both sides) you could copy up to keepsafe and share it?

I have been following the story and the working outs -- how about this one
for Ronnie

George R Scott mmn Bell - Dec Q 1921 Newcastle T - 10b 697

could have been known by second name as Dad was George??

you may need to get one or two more certs to find more answers

Mavis

Here's a link to the 1916 Wards directory, it's worth downloading the pdf file as it can then be searched more easily.

http://leicester.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16445coll4/id/112444

I should have added in my post above that the directory was published 1916 although the information was obviously collated earlier which could account for how James Arnott is included although he died 1915 (I'm pretty sure the death record posted is him)

I don't know if this is of any help, but I've just looked at Wards street directory for 1916 and at 140A Monday Street was a J Arnott, a tailor.

ADDED: So that's the same address as on your dad's birth certificate.

This must surely be the James Arnott who was at 46 Darnell Street on the 1911.

Sorry one last thing. I thought that my Fathers middle name was spelt Reize, but on the birth certificate it is spelt Rozee. I don't know if this helps at all.

The only other thing that I can remember is that Dad was not keen on the Americans. Not sure if this is from the war, when he was in the army??

Ann-Marie

Sorry for the delay in coming back to all of you good people,just trying to find out a few answers for you. Thank you for your help:-

The photo which my older sister obtained when clearing out the house after both my parents died,is of one female which could have been taken in 1901. She is not a young girl more of a young woman. Dressed in a high necked blouse and a long skirt, with her hair tied back in a bun. There is no one else in the photo,no furniture etc and unfortunately no photographers stamp. The writing on the back is definitely my Fathers.

On the birth certificate for my Father it just states Sarah Arnott Of no occupation.

As far as I know my Father was brought up by his Mother, but even my older sister cannot recall much. I never met any of my Grandparents, as being the youngest of 6 they had all died by the time I was born. My Father did not speak about his family or childhood.

I do recall going to Newcastle about 50 years ago when I was small, and staying with an Auntie Kitty. I always believed that she was my Dads twin, but my sister now tells me that she was Kathleen, Uncle Ronnies wife. Auntie Kitty lived on her own. I don't know if Ronnie had died, or they were divorced.I only remember my Father going back to Newcastle once more and that was just before Auntie Kitty died.

When we went to Newcastle I do remember visiting an Auntie Margaret, and also an Uncle Arthur!! I have just found an Arthur A Scott DOB 1925 mmn Bell !! His name was definitely NOT on the back of the photo.

My Father married my Mother, Margaret Curry on the 14.12 .1939

I found also Sarah Arnott married George Scott in 1947, so I am definitely confused!! :-S

Yes, I realise that Potty, I think we need Ann-Marie to come back with some more background info to be able to go any further with any degree of certainty (if there ever is such a thing with our ancestors!!)

Don't you just love them, always trying to confuse ;-)

Flip - and the 1914 birth is for Maggie - as on the photo.

Think we need Ann-Marie to come back on this with more about the photo.

There are births for Doris, Catherine and Margaret Arnott (mmn Bell) in that order from 1908-1914. So maybe Ronnie is a nickname.

But then maybe Ronald as posted by Jude as Scott (mmn Bell) is a possibility . Then there are the twins births in Dec qtr 1917 - so not impossible.

Potty/Flip....I tried looking for Scott/Bell births and Arnott/Bell births....And the ones I found with similar names look good...problem is they conflict with the twins :-(

I started out thinking that if the Scotts are to the left and the Arnotts to the right on the photo that, maybe, the Scotts preceded the Arnotts? So I can find a Doris and a Kathleen in Sunderland 1916 and 1918 and a Ronald Margaret and Doris in Newcastle 1916, 1917 and 1919....

Potty - Ronald

Births Sep 1916 (>99%)
Scott Ronald Bell Newcastle T 10b 249 Scan available - click to view


:-S

But these leave no room for Anne-Marie's twins.

Yes I had noticed Potty, and that is one of the reasons why I was asking about the photo and likelyhood the info may be wrong!

Veronica was just a suggestion - Ronnie is a shortened name, so I was trying to highlight it could be male or female and not restricted to Ronald.

ADDED: the other thing bothering me is the order in which they appear - we normally write from left to right - so I would have thought the oldest first from the LEFT, do Doris being the oldest down to Ronnie the youngest (I believe the 3 Arnott/Bell children were in the same order) - and then the younger twins on the right of the page.

Also when she registered the twins, she would give their names and then it would depend on what questions she was next asked - "Fathers Name? - No, no father - then they may not have asked for her maiden name. If they'd have asked "Maiden Name" first, then maybe she would have said Bell.

Has anybody else noticed how similar the names of the Arnott/Bell children are to the Scotts - Doris, Catherine and Maggie Arnott and Doris, Kathleen and Margaret Scott?

Flip, can't find anything for a Veronica.

Could Ronnie also be short for Veronica?

You're right Flip - Anne-Marie doesn't say they are - I assumed the arrows on the back were referring to the others on the photo. Perhaps you can clarify, Anne-Marie?

Looking for the births of the Scott children, I cannot find a Ronald Scott with a MMN of either Arnott or Bell - there are possibles for the girls.

Following on from Jan's 1911 census, 140 Monday street was divided into 2 flats on 1911 census - 140 and 140A. Neither occupied by anyone connected (Alfred Thomas Jackson in 140 and George Sterling in 140a (3 rooms)

Potty, she doesn't say the children are on the photo just noted on the back.