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List and Ships Book Number is to do with pay I think

The Dido from July 1915 to April 1917 was part of the Harwich Force and all of the destroyers began with L

Destroyers
Laertes Laforey Lance Landrail Lark Laurel
Laverock Lawford Lennox Leonidas Liberty Linnet|
Llewellyn Lochinvar Lookout Loyal Lucifer Lydiard
Lysander

No nearer deciphering it!

Jude

A stab at Teuton...

Chris :)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5985634

(googling brought up above, perhaps named after that event 1881?)

Flip :-)

Yes thought of Phaeton but not convinced....reason for going for Liberty was because of this project http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/H.M.S._Dido_(1896)

Dido was the depot ship and the cruisers and destroyers were in the flotilla with it so I went for a vessel that was associated with Dido

I have been through about a thousand vessels so far and there is not one that fits with tin or ton at the end (I looked for Beaton Flip yesterday lol)! I had three independent views that it was Berlin but of course that was a German ship!

Jude

The ships name looks to me like ?eaton, but only a guess. Could it be HMS Phaeton?

This lists all the british warships of WW1 an ongoing project (I don't think it's a complete list):

http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-LogBooksWW1.htm

Sorry Jude, not ignoring you!

Jude/MarieCeleste I am amazed where you are getting all of this information from ! :-)

No Jude, you're not!

I have to say not 100% convinced that it's Liberty ....

Looking on that image there are three references to Pembroke I - they all give number 152 after it (albeit the last entry is 15 II format). I was wondering if the Dido one could be found using the number after it.

Am I talking to myself :-0

Jude

How about Liberty?

H.M.S. Liberty (1913)
Pendant Number: H.81 (1914)
H.57 (Jan 1918)[1]
Builder: J. S. White[2]
Launched: 15 Sep, 1913[3]
Sold: Nov, 1921[4]

Was a destroyer under HMS Dido

Jude

Not having much luck but there's this...ALTOFT, John W. (25), 3 Albert Ave, Wellsted St, Hull.[2 nd Mate]

Lost by enemy action, s. s. DIDO (Hull), 26 th February,1916. At 6.15 a.m. on 26th February 1916, while lying at anchor during a raging gale and heavy snow showers, just north of the Humber, a violent explosion rocked the DIDO on her port-side up forward, She was carrying one passenger, who also happened to be a stowaway, a crew of thirty and an unspecified general cargo, while on passage from Middlesbrough for Bombay. Captain Taylor instructed the Chief Officer to lower a boat and have the damaged area examined. The Chief and two crewmen climbed in, but as the boat reached the water, the battering from choppy waves broke it adrift. The men tried desperately to row back to the steamship, but in the thick squally snow, they lost sight of the ship and were soon driven away by a strong tide and the wind. The Belgian steamship MARTHA actually found the three men headed over to the DIDO to see what assistance could be rendered. The DIDO was gradually sinking and some of the men had gone into the sea by the time the MARTHA reached the vessel. Attempts were made to rescue the men by throwing ropes, but the icy water had left them too weak and exhausted to grab hold of the ropes. A lifeboat was then lowered from the Belgian steamer, but the freezing conditions were also affecting the rescuers and the squally lumpy sea made rescue almost impossible. At 7.20 a.m., with the MARTHA standing by, the DIDO heaved up and went down to the bottom, taking the confidential papers down with her. In total, twenty-seven people were lost, the stowaway and twenty-six crewmen. The MARTHA then proceeded on her voyage to Hull, where she landed the three survivors.

It's a long shot that he was one of the three survivors......

Jude

Flip

The first set of numbers are List and No

HMS Pembroke was a training base at Chatham as far as I can tell (at the time). THere is only one HMS Dido incarnation that would fit

HMS Dido was built at London and Glasgow and laid down on the 30th August 1894, being launched 20th March 1896. completed for service 10th May 1898. In 1907 HMS Dido joined the the Channel Fleet then in 1909 joined the Home Fleet at the Nore. 1sr battle squadron in 1909 - 1910 and then went to Chatham for refit. In September 1911 joined the Home fleet at the Nore again

The Nore is a sandbank at the mouth of the Thames Estuary, England. It marks the point where the River Thames meets the North Sea, roughly halfway between Havengore Creek in Essex and Warden Point in Kent

I don't believe it IS HMS Dido ....I think the name in brackets is the vessel and they are all Dido class - although this is a term more associated with WW!!

However, this is the bottom entry - torpedoed matching death of Thomas George.

H.M.S. Simoom (1916)
Pendant Number: F.57 (Jan 1917)[1]
Builder: John Brown[2]
Ordered: Dec 1915 (7th Order)[3][4]
Launched: 30 Oct, 1916[5]
Torpedoed: 23 Jan, 1917[6]
Fate: by Template:DE-S50

working on the other one!

Jude

No, I'm with you Marie - but it's such an unusual name. Think the medal card for the 1891 Rozee would rule him out as he was attached to RFA 4th Depot - which was based at Woolwich. 1st Depot was at Newcastle.

Not having any luck deciphering the ship name either, any idea what the numbers signify?

The ship that I think would possibly be relevant is the one third from bottom on this image (I can't make out the correct name):

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/7584446

He was on that from 16/09/1915 to 03/12/1916 which would cover the period of the conception of Ann-Marie's dad (assuming that this man is the father).

I don't normally like to jump to conclusions but as Ann-Marie's father was Thomas George Rozee (which is very unusual) Arnott and we have Thomas George Rozee (x2) I really feel it's one or t'other of these two. There are no surname Rozee births at all in Northumberland on FreeBMD.

I assumed the death record for the 1891 Thomas, as that is what I found on Freebmd - and Ancestry was not playing ball early this morning.

He may not be connected, but the name combination is interesting! And Rozee would have been used for both children - and the Rozee's I could find were mainly from London area, but many men were displaced and in other areas during the war.

Wonder if anyone with military experience can place one of his ships in Newcastle around Oct-Dec 1916?

Flip/MarieCeleste..how interesting!! I don't think that I would have ever found this information. I do think that the Rozee name of my Fathers does have some significance.

Ann-Marie :-)

Re: the Naval record Flip posted, I'm not very good on naval matters but found Thomas George Alfred Rozee's service records:

He signed up 1909 and served on numerous ships. Those that he was on in his last few years were:

Lilac 14/06/1915 - 19/08/1915
Pembroke I 20/08/1915 - 15/09/1915
Dido (benton ??) 16/09/1915 - 03/12/1916
Pembroke I 04/12/1916 - 20/12/1916
Dido (Simoom) 21/12/1916 - 23/01/1917

Don't know if anyone knows how to find out where those ships were at certain times?

There's a note on his records that his actual date of birth was 17 May 1892 but that 1893 would continue to be used for official purposes.

This birth comes up on FindMyPast but not on FreeBMD or Ancestry:

England & Wales births 1837-2006
First name(s) THOMAS GEORGE A
Last name ROZEE
Birth year 1892
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District POPLAR
County London
Country England
Volume 1C
Page 709

It's been mistranscribed on FreeBMD as:

Births Jun 1892
Rozee William George A Poplar 1c 709

(I've submitted a correction).

I do think the names are significant, but this similarly named lad is also in the running:

Births Mar 1891
ROZEE Thomas George Bethnal Green 1c 277

This older of the two was in the Royal Field Artillery and died 1942, having married Ethel May Lambert in 1911.

Flip/Jude I will do as you suggest and get those certificates . Also I will carry on with my journey and keep looking. Who knows what might turn up!

Thank you all for your help, at least I do know now a lot more than when I started.

Ann-Marie :-)

Maybe someone with a bit more military knowledge could check this out:

Thomas George Alfred Rozee
Rank:AB
Birth Date:17 May 1893 << not sure this is right, think he was born 1891
Birth Place:Poplar, London
Branch of Service:Royal Navy
Cause of Death:Killed or died as a direct result of enemy action
Official Number Port Division:J.4568. (Ch)
Death Date:23 Jan 1917
Ship or Unit:HMS Simon <<think this should read Simoom
Location of Grave:Not recorded
Name and Address of Cemetery:Body Not Recovered For Burial
Relatives Notified and Address:
Friend: Rebecca Payne 96 Adamson Road, Custom House London,E

The ship was built in Glasgow in 1916, could it have been based in Newcastle at some point in 1916?

I realise he's a fair bit younger than Sarah - but you never know.........the Rozee name she gave both twins must have some significance.

Yes Ann-Marie...you certainly have given us a puzzle!

I agree with Flip that the marriage certificate of Sarah and George would be useful - even if it eliminates rather than informs.

I also might be tempted to get the death certificate for James Arnott.

It really looks like Sarah Bell married James Arnott and had the three children Doris, Catherine and Margaret, then the twins as Arnotts after James had died and maybe then then perhaps Ronald as a Scott.

It might be worth looking for a marriage for "Kitty and Ronnie" - is this Kathleen the daughter marrying a Ronald or Ronald the (assumed) son marrying a "Kathleen" :-S

I see your father's dob from his death registration, but it hadn't occurred to be before - she was well outside the time limits for registering his birth (reg Oct-Dec qtr) wonder why the delay...

Not sure I accept the Ronald Scott birth in 1916 - if you look at the index he also appears to be a twin, with a Raymond Scott on same page. If this is the right Ronnie why isn't Raymond mentioned on the photo - he appears to have survived childhood.

I've just checked for possible deaths for Ronald/Raymond - and there are 2 showing same dob (23/6/1916), Raymond died in 1979 in Newcastle and Ronald in 1987 in Blackpool/Fylde so pretty convinced now that this is the wrong Ronald.

And no, it doesn't get any easier - they were a slippery lot those ancestors of ours ;-)

If it were me, I would be tempted to buy the Scott/Arnott marriage certificate to confirm whether or not it is your Sarah - and it should give a fathers name so you can take your research back a bit further.

Flip unfortunately I don't have a copy of the photo. We are coming home to England at the end of the month so I am hoping to get one then. I have just spoken to my sister and she says that the names are in a list with Scott recorded along side Ronnie. I just thought that all the other children were Scott too, but as you said perhaps they were Arnotts.

The only record I can find for Ronald Scott is DOB 1916, then my Father was born in July 1917. I do wonder about his middle name of Rozee. Perhaps it has some connection with his Father?? All so confusing!! Does it get easier with experience?

Thank you again for all of you help.