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I have just received the DNA results I sent for .I sent for them because all I had was England.My granddad Sam was a mystery on his marriage to Minnie he was born 1866.and his father was Isaac.
Nobody could connect the two so I left it.

Imagine my surprise when my friends at Genes came up with Sam born 1854
and all the info just flooded in.Jewish, Rodregues, I was shocked I was told that Sam was jewish but I had no proof.

My DNA said Jewish, and Iberian Peninsula,also a trace of Europe West.
So thanks to everyone at Genes it looks like I finally have answers .

Can anyone tell me when Sam died the death certificate I bought 3 years said he died in 1931 and that he was 67 and was a docker.
His whole family were involved with horses and if he was born in 1854 the age is wrong.also my gran nor my dad were with him.

It doesn't make sense
Please give me the last piece of the jigsaw.
Thank You Sam

Yes I do have this she is not on the 1901 census so I have been looking
from1892 onwards.Still can,' pinpoint her death also Sam

Do you have this?

Elizabeth Howard

in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Record Image View

Name: Elizabeth Howard
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Age: 23
Spouse: Samuel Rodgers
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Feb 1875
Parish: St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Howard
Spouse Father: Isaac Rodgers
Register Type: Parish Register

Samuel a bachelor, carman, Isaac a horse dealer.

Dear Friends,
I have been trying to find Elizabeth and Sam Rogers death
I sent. for Minnie's death certificate my gran ,Sam's second wife
and it was right because my dad was on it.

I also sent for Sam s because everyone said he died in 1931
and that he was born in 1866.I always had doubts because it says he was a ex
docker and it didn't fit seeing all his family were with horses.

Also his wife Minnie nor my dad Sam was with him.when he died.
Since you all found that he was born abt1854 none of it makes sense..

I want to send for death certificates but need to get it right.
Hope you can help Sam.

Glad we have been able to carry you forward (or backwards) a bit further.

Hope all the info helps but when you have managed to 'digest' it all do come back on here, on to this thread, and tell us what further help you need.

Very best wishes and good luck in your research,

Dea Xxx

I am not with Ancestry because of the difference in birthdays I had 1866 now it is with
the help of Genes helpers 1854.
Ancestry had a DNA on offer so I have sent mine if as I was told Jewish was in my family and the DNA proves it everything that has been sent to me is true..

Then it will answer a whole lot of questions.
I have tried for so long.
Sam :-D

(no idea folks, but wondered if below caused any confusion anywhere (other Trees) Father named as Isaac Rogers, occ. Horse Dealer. Joseph, Full Age, Bachelor, occ. Hackney Carriage Driver, Residence At Time for both as White St.)

Chris :)

Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Frenchman Esther Bethnal Green 1c 495
ROGERS Joseph Bethnal Green 1c 495

(will add apologies, not wanting to confuse things!)


(reference to JewishGen)

RODRIGUES, Isaac
1857
Joseph (Spouse/Father/Mother)
Novo (New) Cemetery
Bevis Marks Records Part VI Serial No: 7031


Deaths Dec 1857 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------
Rogers Isaac Mile End 1c 397

I can't thank you all enough for all your help and advise
I had all but given up.The problem that kept cropping up was I couldn't find Sam
With his father Isaac.I had his birth as abt 1866.
The people that have just found that it was 1854.

This makes such a difference now Isaac is coming up everywhere.
I just don't where to look and you all find it straight away.

Many Thanks Sam

Maybe but birth year is a year out?

Elizabeth Rogers
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Registration Year: 1900
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 48
Registration district: Pancras
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 97

A tree on Ancestry has this listed for Isaac's death:

" 21 Oct 1857
Mile End, London, England

Information found on jgsgb.org.uk origin Bevis Marks Synagogue records"

Austin has posted the 1881 census where Samuel has been mistranscibed as Manuel.

I have posted the 1891 census showing Samuel and Elizabeth with their children, George, Isaac, Hassa (looks like that on the image, male) and daughter Esther. I have also posted Esther's birth and probable marriages for sons George and Isaac.

I think that's what everybody's been trying to find out!

There is already some information on possible children for Samuel/ Elizabeth- on this thread- although you will need to buy the birth certificates to confirm.

We're having difficulty seeing Samuel or his children on the 1901- so can't fix a time on Elizabeth's death- but you can search on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

I think it's likely that Sam's mother, Rebecca died in 1861 as per the info given to you by Chris Ho earlier. I also think it's likely that Isaac died before 1861- as Samuel is living with his brother (listed as nephew) in 1861 and although the place of birth is out, this is a possible for his sister Abigail in 1861 in the Jews Orphan Asylum in St. Mark's Street:

Name: Abigail Rodrigues
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1849
Relation: Orphan Inmate (Orphan)
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Whitechapel
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Goodmans Fields
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 149
Piece: 273 Folio: 121 Page Number: 24

On Abigail's marriage cert in 1869 her father was listed deceased.

Could someone find out Sam married Elizabeth Howard in 1875 Bethnal Green.
If this is right when did she die was there any children and when did Isaac Sam's
Father die.

Austin,
That makes sense.I will look into it.
I have been sent one with Sam marrying Elizabeth Howard
in1875 and his father named as Isaac horse dealer.

Isaac horse dealer is what is on his second marriage certificate to my gran
Minnie in manchester in 1905.

Sam- I think the Manuel is a mistranscription of Samuel

The Children match those on the 1891 census. They are possibly the children from his first marriage.

I am still looking at all the new info you all have sent me.
I don't think
the 1881 is right I am looking for Sam, not Manuel and Isaac his father.
not Isaac as the son.
Thank you anyway for your help.
Sam

Can't see them yet- there seems to be lots of confusing trees on Ancestry.

Well done Austin! I couldn't find them in 1881.

Have you spotted any of them in 1901 yet please?

Wow, this is moving on- great work.

Presume this is them in1881:

Name: Manuel Rogers
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Elizabeth Rogers
Gender: Male
Where born: London City of, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Spitalfields
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 8 Bell Lane
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Carman
Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub registration district: Spitalfields
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Piece: 436
Folio: 36
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Manuel Rogers 27 Carman City of London
Elizabeth Rogers 30 Whitechapel
George Rogers 4 Spitalfields
Isaac Rogers Younger Than 1 (Looks more like 1 1/2) Spitalfields

Son Isaac's marriage.

Record Image VIEW
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Name: Samuel Isaac Rogers
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Age: 31
Spouse: Sarah Ann Jane Meggs
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 9 May 1910
Parish: St Matthew, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Samuel Rogers, Horse Dealer
Spouse Father: Henry Meggs
Register Type: Parish Register


Witnesses Thomas Howard and Louisa Howard