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Dea.
I have looked at the 1924 because unless I am wrong if Sam was born in 1854 the date matches but it said Prestwich and I didn't know the boundries but now you have given me Cheetham it makes sense and finding Minnie and the cemetery.I couldn't,ask for more.
Thank you Samxx

Good find there Dea, would be worth getting credits to view perhaps?...(Abode/Address, could perhaps be on it)

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200032/deaths_funerals_and_cremations/1064/burial_records/3


(Info. from above, if you wanted to says)

The bundles are four for £12, ten for £25 and 25 for £50. You don't even have to use the credits all in one visit, an account is created which allows you to keep coming back until the credits are used and you are also able to top up your account by purchasing more credits at any time.


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gs&

(also on above, no further info.)

Chris :)


http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1304115

(and just to add above Samuel, in case you wanted to trace the Brindleys sometime in the future, lol, below link will help, more Births by the looks of it!)

http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi

Dea
I thought you had deserted me how do you do it
Every bit of info I get is brilliant all this info again .
Thank you so much Dea and all my friends at Genes for taking your time to help me
Best Wishes Sam xxx

This is where Minnie is buried and it does look as if she is in a Paupers Grave as there are many others buried in it and not related.

Burial Date Deceased Cemetery Grave Number Grave Details
09/03/1935 Minnie Rogers Philips Park Cemetery IConsecrated 504 View details


These are some Samuel Rogers' buried at the same cemetery during the time period we are looking at:
Burial Date Deceased Cemetery Grave Number Grave Details
10/08/1912 Samuel Rogers Philips Park Cemetery CRoman Catholic 96 View details
22/04/1919 Samuel Rogers Philips Park Cemetery IConsecrated 2681 View details ******
01/03/1924 Samuel Rogers Philips Park Cemetery IConsecrated 2533 View details
18/04/1917 Samuel Rogers Philips Park Cemetery KConsecrated 187 View details


These are the ages of the above taken from LancsBMD site:

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1912
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
ROGERS Samuel 70 Cheetham Archives+, Manchester Central Library CHE/140/342


Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1919 *****
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
ROGERS Samuel 57 Cheetham Manchester CHE/164/390


Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1924
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
ROGERS Samuel 72 Cheetham Manchester CHE/179/47


As you see, the 1912 and the 1924 ones are too old but the one in 1919 is the correct age if he is now using his correct dob.

This would be the GRO ref:

Deaths Jun 1919 (>99%)
Rogers Samuel 57 Prestwich 8d 258

I can't see him mentioned already in the thread but has this one been discounted ?

I can't find any death reg for the 1917 one but will see if I can find any details elsewhere.....

Dea x

I don't know where my gran is buried all I know is it was the time of
the depression and my dad like many more had no work so gran was
buried in a papers grave.My dad died in 1961 when I was 12 so everything
I know was off my mother.I wish I had asked her more when she was alive.

I know she knew Minnie but she didn't know Sam.
It always upset my dad he couldn't give his mother a proper funeral

Re wrong wife Emily -
Yes, she and her husband are on the 1911 and 1901 censuses - so it's definitely not your Samuel who died in 1915.

Just a thought, do you know where Minnie was buried please? Is it possible that Samuel is buried in the same lair but not named on the headstone?

I have never been able to find a death registration for my great great grandfather but I got his date of death from the cemetery records as he was buried with his wife and a couple of their grandchildren.

Remember too that state old age pensions were introduced for 70 year olds in 1909 so if Samuel was still around in 1924, he may have come clean about his year of birth to enable him to claim his pension.

Emily wife on the 1915 certificate

In case it turns out to be relevant, what was the name of the wrong wife on the 1915 cert?

The 1915 with wrong wife was Chorlton upon Medlock the 1931 was Salford.
All of his family were in involved with horses on my man and dads marriage
certificate 1938 it had Samuel father deceased Cab Proprieter.

Hello Samuel,

It's been a while since we looked into this one, so I just want to post the 1911 so we know where Samuel was living.

It's also worth noting, for others that are helping, that earlier records indicate he was born 1854.

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
11 Higher Temple St C on M M/c, South Manchester, Lancashire, England

Samuel Rogers Head Married Male Coachmaker 45 1866 London City
Minnie Rogers Wife Married Female - 38 1873 Handley
Arhur Bridley Stepson Single Male Schoolboy 14 1897 Handley
Glaydas Brindley Stepdaughter Single Female Schoolgirl 11 1900 Handley
Samuel Rogers Son Single Male - 0 1911 Manchester
Rose Lee Lodger Single Female Mill Girl 23 1888 Glasgow
Thomas McNulty Lodger Single Male Coachman 33 1878 Ireland

Archive reference RG14
Registration district Chorlton<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district number 464
Enumeration district 5

Samuel, the address above registers under Chorlton district. Is this the certificate you ordered that had the wrong wife listed?

Death:
First name(s) SAMUEL
Last name ROGERS
Gender Male
Birth year 1864
Age 51
Death quarter 4
Death year 1915
District CHORLTON
County Lancashire
Volume 8C Page 1037

Yes it does say Minnie was widow on her death certificate

Already asked, but not answered -
does Minnie's death cert say if she was a widow?

Thank you for your help.I don't know what happened I lost the threads.
I was asked what it had on Sam's death certificate 1931 which since the help if my friends at Genes the certificate makes less sense.It says Eighth of April 1931 35 Tintern st Salford.age 67: Labourer on Docks Natural Causes no pm.By this it looks like he was on his own. My gran Minnie was alive she died March 1935 in Salford and my dad was present at her death.That's why Sam's certificate doesn' t make since.

The 1915'certicate I sent for he was a cabinet maker and his wife was Emily
This one I dismissed right away.
Hope this helps Sam

Samuel Rogers

England and Wales Birth Registration Index

Name Samuel Rogers
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year 1854
Registration District East London
County London
Event Place East London, London, England
Volume 1C
Page 22
Line Number 37

Samuel Rogers

England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007

Name Samuel Rogers
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1923
Registration District Bethnal Green
County London
Event Place Bethnal Green, London, England
Age (available after 1866) 69
Birth Year (Estimated) 1854
Volume 1C
Page 131
Line Number 75

Just a long shot - I can't remember if this is one you'd already discounted?

Deaths Sep 1912 (>99%)
ROGERS Samuel 44 Salford 8d 50

Age not quite right even if he had been born 1863-66, but maybe ??


Or alternatively, maybe the below with name spelled wrongly ??

Deaths Jun 1919 (>99%)
Rodgers Samuel 53 Barton upon Irwell 8c 617

Responding to this because of the other thread you started today - now deleted as suggested - looking for Sam's death.

So , thinking aloud, and probably not coming up with any answer:

He was in Manchester in 1911, and Minnie died in Salford in 1935 - does her death cert say she was a widow at that time?.
It would be reasonable to assume that they were in Manchester/Salford between those dates, and that Sam died in that area too.

[EDIT: do you have any knowledge of him being alive at any time between those dates? ]

But maybe he died somewhere else.

Even if he was actually born in 1854, his YOB is given as 1863 at his marriage to Minnie in 1905, and as 1866 in the 1911 census.
So, if that's what he'd told Minnie was when he was born, and was also therefore what his son thought, then that's probably what was given on his death record.

You say neither your gran nor your dad are mentioned on the 1931 death cert. What's the actual wording on it, please?
Is it possible that a docker could have been moving cargo by horse-drawn vehicle??

As I said - just thoughts, and probably not useful.

Bumped up for Samuel.................

I have just received the DNA results I sent for .I sent for them because all I had was England.My granddad Sam was a mystery on his marriage to Minnie he was born 1866.and his father was Isaac.
Nobody could connect the two so I left it.

Imagine my surprise when my friends at Genes came up with Sam born 1854
and all the info just flooded in.Jewish, Rodregues, I was shocked I was told that Sam was jewish but I had no proof.

My DNA said Jewish, and Iberian Peninsula,also a trace of Europe West.
So thanks to everyone at Genes it looks like I finally have answers .

Can anyone tell me when Sam died the death certificate I bought 3 years said he died in 1931 and that he was 67 and was a docker.
His whole family were involved with horses and if he was born in 1854 the age is wrong.also my gran nor my dad were with him.

It doesn't make sense
Please give me the last piece of the jigsaw.
Thank You Sam