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Do you or your friend have the 1919 marriage certificate? If so what occupation is given for Hubert?

This is the only Hubert/Bert Leonard born 1888 +/- 5 years that comes up in the 1911 census on Findmypast:-

1911 census transcription details for: 50 Upper Ch St Oswestry

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National Archive Reference:
RG14PN16151 RG78PN997 RD350 SD3 ED22 SN47
Reg. District: Oswestry
Sub District: Oswestry
Parish: Oswestry Urban
Enum. District: 22
Address: 50 Upper Ch St Oswestry
County: Shropshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
CUMPTON, William Head Married
2 years M 60 1851 Railway Pensioner Salop Pontesbury
CUMPTON, Annie May Wife Married F 33 1878 Oxford
GUNSTONE, Reginald Lodger Married M 32 1879 Tsergt Instructor Territorials Milbourn Dorset
GUNSTONE, Harriett Wife Married
3 years F 34 1877 Cork
LEONARD, Bert Boarder Single M 23 1888 Music Hall Artiste Leicester<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

These are all the Herbert Leonards that come up:-

LEONARD, Bert 1888 23 M Oswestry Shropshire

LEONARD, Herbert 1886 25 M Lewisham London

LEONARD, Herbert 1885 26 M Amersham Buckinghamshire

LEONARD, Herbert 1886 25 M Stourbridge Worcestershire

LEONARD, Herbert 1890 21 M Chester Cheshire

LEONARD, Herbert 1884 27 M Salford Lancashire

LEONARD, Herbert 1890 21 M Huddersfield Yorkshire (West riding)

LEONARD, Herbert 1889 22 M Doncaster Yorkshire (West riding)

LEONARD, Herbert 1890 21 M Sculcoates Yorkshire (East riding)

LEONARD, Herbert Edward 1893 18 M Milton Kent

LEONARD, Herbert F 1884 27 M St Olave (Bermondsey) London

LEONARD, Herbert W C 1889 22 M Bristol Gloucestershire

LEONARD, Herbert William 1891 20 M Northampton Northamptonshire

Kath. x

Sorry a bit confused here.

You now say that he was born c.1888 so why were we looking for a marriage between 1896-1910? He would only have been 8yrs old in 1896 so that wouldn't have been possible.

What were the details on the marriage certificate to Mary Ann Lennon?
What did he give as his age and his occupation?

Death confirms birth to be abt.1889

Deaths Mar 1934 (>99%)
Leonard Hubert 45 Fylde 8e 767

Does your friend have the death cert to see who registered the death?

If, as you believe, he died in the area where his 'first' wife was living, maybe they got together again after he left Mary Ann and the children, in which case, she may be mentioned on that cert?

Dea x

??
Mary Anne lennon 1896 Liverpool to Thomas/James Lennon and Ann nee O'Brien baptised St Anthonys Liverpool.

Mary Ann lennon
1911
180 Athol street.

Son Hubert leonard born Liverpool 1920 nee lennon.

Hubert leonard died 1935 of 369a Scotland Road buried July 14th Ford Cemetery grave As 394
Mary Anne leonard died May 21st 1930 of 180 Athol Road (same as 1911 census) buried Ford Cemetery grave As 394.

Mary Ann Lennon's mum
Anne lennon age 75 of 369a Scotland road buried August 11th 1938 same grave AS 394.
Maryb.

Men born abt. 1889 always make me think about WW1 especially when they have had broken marriages. A lot of men who married prior to the war never went home after it was finished and made another life elsewhere (due to trauma etc.)
So I was wondering about this one:-

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 about Hugh Leonard
Name: Hugh Leonard
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Age at enlistment: 23
Residence: 93 Old Lancaster Lane, Preston, Lancs (address going back to)
Document Year: 1910
Regimental Number: 19721
Regiment Name: South Wales Borderers
Number of Images: 6
Discharged on:- 17th July 1915 (unfit for service)


.............born abt. correct time in Lancashire but with connection to Wales?

EDIT:- Noted as being single, so maybe not???

I am very curious about this one !

I know his year of birth is wrong and he was in fact born in Jersey!

BUT he is in Llanelli and his wife was born in Manchester.

She also died in the Manchester area so she may have returned there after he left her?

The 'visitors' on there 'may' be his parents?

1911 census transcription details for: 4 Church Place Tumble Llannon S O Carm
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National Archive Reference:

RG14PN32882 RG78PN1878 RD596 SD5 ED4 SN295
Reg. District: Llanelly
Sub District: Llannon
Parish: Llannon
Enum. District: 4
Address: 4 Church Place Tumble Llannon S O Carm
County: Carmarthenshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
LEONARD, Hubert Husband Married M 30 1881 Colliery Stoker Jersey
LEONARD, Gurtaude Wife Married F 27 1884 Housekeeper Manchester
LEONARD, G O Hubert Visitor Married M 52 1859 Colliery Labour Leamington
LEONARD, Mary Annie Visitor Married 32 years F 54 1857 Housewife Jersey
WALTERS, Ben Boarder Single M 24 1887 Engineer Liverpool
HAWKE, Sid Boarder Married M 22 1889 Colliery Stoker London




England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Gertrude Leonard
Name: Gertrude Leonard
Birth Date: 9 Dec 1885
Date of Registration: Jun 1981
Age at Death: 95
Registration district: York
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 2
Page: 2838

It is just a 'feeling' at the moment but I will work on it.........

Dea x

Having looked at the image, the visitors ARE his parents and he was their only child. They were married on 9th May 1879 and Hubert was their only child.

Hubert married Gertude on 13th June 1902 but I have not found the marriage as yet.

Thinking about it, if Hubert lied about already being married when he 'married' for the second time, he could well have also lied about his age or where he came from ?

Does she have the 1919 marriage cert, if so this could be very useful as we could compare his signature on that to the one on this 1911 census form !!!! ;-)

It would also be useful for us to have all the other details from that marriage cert.

Dea x

1901 for Deas 1911 census,


Name: Herlbert Leonard
[Herbert Leonard]
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: George O Leonard
Mother: Mary A Leonard
Birth Place: Eastbourne, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Eastbourne
Ecclesiastical parish: Eastbourne Christchurch
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Eastbourne
Sub-registration district: Eastbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 27a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 883
Folio: 88
Page Number: 15
Household schedule number: 104
Household Members:
Name Age
George O Leonard 42
Mary A Leonard 43
Herlbert Leonard 13

There's a tree on ancestry with the above family, not much on it, their was a son born in 1912 ,



Name: Hubert Leonard
Birth: 1885 - Sussex, England
Death: 31 1 1939 (31 Jan 1939) - Kirkham, Lancashire, England
Parents: George Owen Leonard
Spouse: Amelia Gertrude Palmer

Something extremely odd with this entire family, the facts are there but the truths don't add up!!!!! What they hiding from??


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
Anglin John Warrington 8c 326
Donohue James Warrington 8c 326
Green Nellie Warrington 8c 326
PALMER Amelia Gertrude Warrington 8c 326 <<<<???!!!???

Hubert's parents marriage,


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
Burman Mary Ann Eastbourne 2b 168
Files Richard Herbert Eastbourne 2b 168
Leonard George Owen Eastbourne 2b 168
Oliver Mary Ann Eastbourne 2b 168

Births Mar 1911 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Leonard George O H Llanelly 11a 1325

Baptism
Forenames:George Owen Hubert
Surname:Leonard
Baptism Year:1911
Baptism Month:Mar
Baptism Day:21
Place:Llannon
County:Carmarthenshire
Fathers Forenames:Hubert
Mothers Forenames:Amelia Gertrude
Record source:Carmarthen baptisms - Transcripts

(and a Burial, 16 days old, address as 1911)

Chris :)

Baptism
Forenames:George Hubert
Surname:Leonard
Baptism Year:1912
Baptism Month:Jul
Baptism Day:7
Place:Llannon
County:Carmarthenshire
Fathers Forenames:Hubert (Stoker)
Mothers Forenames:Amelia Gertrude
(abode, Bodowen, Tumble)

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1902
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PALMER Amelia G ANGLIN John Warrington, Civil Marriage Warrington R/35/152

Thanks for the 1911 Census :-)

That tree on Ancestry is obviously flawed because they certainly have the wrong marriage !

Ms Palmer actually married a John Anglin:

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1902
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PALMER Amelia G ANGLIN John Warrington, Civil Marriage Warrington R/35/152

Dea x

Could Amelia have left mr Anglin??? The time for the marriage date is the correct quarter,


Name: Amelia G Palmer
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Warrington
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Warrington
Sub-registration district: Warrington
ED, institution, or vessel: 55
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3585
Folio: 115
Page Number: 27
Household schedule number: 172
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Blackhurst 77
Mary H Blackhurst 40
Thomas Blackhurst 38
Robert W Davidson 24
Amelia G Palmer 18

The 1912 birth for a George H Leonard states mothers maiden name was Palmer, think that marriage in 1902 was correct and Amelia/Gertrude left John Anglin and was with Hubert Leonard in 1911, hence why he may have told a lie about his age.

Hubert may not have been born with the Leonard surname???

Is this the sons marriage with the "O" added??

Name: George H O Leonard
Spouse Surname: Cross
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1934
Registration district: Fylde
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8e
Page Number: 1187
Find Spouse: Find Spouse


Interesting reg district.

Colette said that her Hubert died in 1934, not 1939 so the Hubert with parents George Owen and Amelia Gertrude Palmer, can't be him?

The sons death,

Name: George Hubert O Leonard
Birth Date: 15 May 1912
Date of Registration: Aug 1986
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Preston and South Ribble
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 40
Page: 1635