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Thank you Roy, lots to think about...will contact his granson and see if any more info has come to light.
The thought on Joseph not being real is a good one and thank you for that. will try the big library next week to check address out....

Once again thank you Roy for your kind help.

Ciao

Joanie x ;-)

If the info on his marriage cert ref his age is correct then his birth is somewhere between 2nd April 1913 and the 30th March 1914, The 14/08/1913 - died june 1998 Manchester is the one to have a punt on,

I have also done some work on marriages and as i said he could have been born anywhere, So i checked Lancs and Cheshire BMD web site because they give spouses names before 1911 i found the ones you posted plus 3 more in Cheshire one 1903 to Emily Williams one in 1908 to Lilian Rachel H Williams and another in 1897 to Sarah Worthington.

The death cert is what is most important and the best way forward, Hopefully Informant will be a family member

With the Correct death cert his military record can be obtained which should have his DOB and next of kin details which when he first joined the army would be one of his parents.

One last thought, dad Joseph Cooper may have been a lie? If Frank was an illegitimate child then he may have invented the name to save face infront of future inlaws



Roy

Still havent got to Liverpool central library, the weather too bad, but spent the day at local one...Did find 2 possibles
1...Mary Ann Brooks married a Joseph Cooper 1897 in Prestwich and had a son in Jan 1914 named Frank Cooper.
2....Harriet Clark married a Joseph Cooper in Haslington and had a son Frank Cooper in 1914 in Preswich.

Looked at death's for Frank Cooper born Lancashire round 1914.
1...F.C. b 12/12/1914 - died March 1990 in Leigh.
2...F.C. b 14/08/1913 - died june 1998 Manchester
3...F.C...b 1914/15 - died dec 1947 age 32 Warrington
4...F.C...b 1915 - died sept 1960 age 45 Warrington.
hoping by collecting this info something may fall into place :-S

Joanie x

Still no luck...any bright idea's would be appreciated....maybe go to Library next week and see electrol rolls for 6 heyburn road tuebrook Liverpool for 1937/38 as i know they did not do them during WW2, and hope they lived there then or maybe 1946.....x

Thank you Folks, i have tried to find all the Frank's born in those times, all marriages of Joseph to try and match wifes name - with mother, will try to match up today....x

To apply for his service records you would need his death certificate unless he died whilst still serving, with a death certificate you don't need to be NOK or their consent but the MOD will only release his basic info which includes dob, This changes 25 years after death when they will release all info they hold, Army records from the MOD will cost £30 for his basic info the extra info that may be available also has a charge of £30 per record

See https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records

Could also do with knowing if her second marriage had her status as widow,

a search for his death on Ancestry could help? just enter Frank Cooper and leave the death date and location blank and just put dob as sept 1913 +/- 1 year should bring up the deaths with his dob




Roy

Joanie

NOK can apply for his service records, details below

http://www.veterans-uk.info/

Maybe finding him through is Army records would help ?

Frank Cooper Army Catering Corp 7639123, this might give family info.

Thank you Roy, i have just gone through all valentines marriages to see if i can find out who she married...off to bed...Once again thank you for your help.

Joanie x

He could have been born anywere, There are 20 plus births for a Frank Cooper c1913 "no middle name" in that period and trying to find if any joseph cooper married anyone with one of those maiden names is a long job so i will have another look at this tomorrow

Roy

Name: Frederick W Sutton
: Doris L Cooper... District: Liverpool... County: Lancashire... Year: 1972... Quarter: Jul-Sep... Volume: 10d... Page: 0711...

Joanie x

She married Fred in Bootle , sorry have not got date to hand, just a note says 1972...sorry i am looking on freebdm for his birth...

i found one death in Congleton-crewe that would fit in with Frank's dob ...1976-3q-35-258.....born 1913...age 63...none in lancashire.

and a birth in Ormskirk Frank Cooper, mother Valentine...8b 1697- 2q- 1913...

When and where did she marry Fred W Sutton,

Roy

You have not give a dob for Doris, but you say you have the birth cert,

Do you have a death for her, as i posted earlier a death for her will give you a start point as to where to look for Franks death,

There is a death in 1954 for a Doris L Cooper age 34 making her birth c1920 same as Doris l Cole but it's registered at Leek so did they move?

You have added to your post so answering the question about Doris's death




Roy

Hie was a Batchelor, she was single. And age 24 .

I have his mothers birth cert.

His Granparents were Doris Louise Cole born1/3/1920 in Bideford Devon and died 1985...
His Grandfather was Frank Cooper they married in Bootle nr Liverpool on 1st April 1944.
Doris remarried to Fred W Sutton.

but i have no idea if Frank died or they divorced that is why i sent for the marriage cert to get info on Frank....it says Frank not Francis on cert.

Thank you Roy, that helps and again Gins.x

If he was 30 years old on the 1st April 1944 then his birth would be somewhere between 2nd April 1913 and the 30th March 1914, So you can dis-count the first quarter of 1913 and the 3rd and 4th quarter of 1914 for now unless a late entry was made for his birth.

On the marriage cert does it say he was a widow or a bachelor, and What was the brides age and status

You say you "i got his mothers cert and started from there" i presume you meen the guys mother who your helping? What cert do you refer to? is it her death cert if so where was her death registered and was Frank the informant? that would give you a start point as to where to look for his death based on the above criterior for his dob,

Although his father Joseph Cooper declared as a General Dealer on his marriage cert could he have died in WW1? Worth trowling the CWGC just incase their is a Joseph Cooper with a son named Frank "family are often mentioned"

Roy

Joanie

You could post the grandparents names and full details

This is for a guy who was fostered out to family he is wanting to know about his grandparents, i have found his grandmother and know this is his G.pa, but nothing more...(my reward for months of looking is a custard slice cake ) and giving him some background....x

p.s. i got his mothers cert and started from there.....

So how do you connect to him?

I am looking Reggie, but as i have no other info but his Pa is joseph, not too easy..., no idea when he died i am sorry to say....This is the cert we spoke about a few weeks ago where there was 2 lots of details and i took your advice and sent to local office and this appeared today.x