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Thank you for another private message, John.

You say:

"I'm intrigue to know how my original posting on 5th January 2014 at 13 09pm appeared on the internet for general release.
Is this an infringement of personal privacy, my posting was for the members and helpers only.
Was exposure to the internet to further the interest and benefit of Genes Reunite only."

John, this site provides very little guidance about using it, but the instructions at the top of the Living Relatives board where you posted are quite clear:

"Please be aware that anything you post on this message board (and our other boards) is in the public domain and can be found using internet search engines. Please only post details that do not infringe upon anyone's privacy rights."

This is a public message board. Anyone with an internet connection can find and read it. This is why you were repeatedly asked to remove the date of birth of a third party in another thread, for instance.

It seems you have very suddenly managed to solve this longtime mystery in some way (you had posted further requests on these boards this month so this is indeed sudden), so that is good.

You're very welcome, from all of the members who have tried to help while beng given very little information to go on, I'm sure.

Hopefully this means that the man who was searching for his father now has the information you have found.

For your info, I sent a private message to 'J' who posted earlier in this thread, but so far it has not been read. 'J' may not have read the email notification of it yet, or may no longer have the same email address as in 2014.



to be left hanging like that ........ :-(

I wonder about

Name: Sioney C Herbert
[Sidney C Herbert] > corrected by an Ancestry member, possibly 'J'?
Death Age: 77
Birth Date: abt 1887
Registration Date: Mar 1964
Registration district: Plympton
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 7a
Page: 847

Marriages Sep 1923
Herbert Sidney C Townsend Plymouth 5b 563
Townsend Winifred M Herbert Plymouth 5b 563

Name: Winifred May Herbert
Death Age: 93
Birth Date: 13 Apr 1899
Registration Date: Jan 1993
Registration district: Plymouth
Inferred County: Devon
Register Number: C43A
District and Subdistrict: 4161C
Entry Number: 176

Births Jun 1899
TOWNSEND Winifred May Plymouth 5b 222

in the 1939 register together in Plymouth with one person whose record is closed (i.e. born after 1917) shown as:

Sidney C Herbert 1887 Plymouth C.B., Devon, England

Only 1 Herbert-Townsend birth, 1929 Devonport, to match the 1939 closed record.

(1939 PJH maybe living in Bristol, per address at 1940 marriage, or elsewhere)

The 1929 child is in the tree of a member with a related name at this site, and married and had a child who is also in a tree here.

But the one flying to New York in 1958 (as posted on another thread) presumably is the right one.

DOB is exactly the one you gave.

Posting again:

Peter J Herbert
in the New York State, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1917-1966
Name: Peter J Herbert
Nationality: British
Arrival Age: 37
Birth Date: 31 Oct 1920
Birth Place: Isr Qusy [ probably Torquay ]
Arrival Date: 3 May 1958
Arrival Place: New York, New York, USA
Airline: PAA
Flight Number: 3
Port: New York

Dear Members & Helpers

Have advise all, after extensive search, researching, employing various private detectives and agencies, at considerable cost, have finally solved my original posting on 5th January 2014 at 13 09pm.

Unfortunately due to legal consideration, can't disclose my findings at this time. However I've been advised Peter's life is worthy of any novel/film.

At this time can inform the Peter John Herbert born 1922, a passenger on the Edinburgh Castle, sailing to South Africa 1957, is not 'my' Peter J Herbert.

With kind regards.

JOHN.

Of possible interest given the SA divorce proceeding


Name: Mabel Una Herbert
Death Age: 75
Birth Date: 14 Dec 1932
Registration Date: Feb 2007
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: -1
Page: -1
Register Number: C117A
District and Subdistrict: 256/1C
Entry Number: 201

(The only birth reg that could match that death is a Mabel U B Canter reg in first quarter 1933 but 1950s electoral roll shows her as Mabel Ursula B. so the death remains unaccounted for.)

I googled Mabel Una Fowler ...

>>> AND I HAVE NOW RULED OUT THE Peter John Herbert IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN DIVORCE RECORD, AS THAT PJH WAS BORN IN 1929 AND SO DID NOT MARRY IN 1940.

Who the Peter Herbert (note no middle name) who travelled to Cape en route to South Rhodesia in 1957 with birthdate recorded as 20.10.22, address in Norwood, and occupation traffic control, was ........

Ah, I see now in the article posted in another thread with a tinyurl link

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/
why-did-my-father-disappear-son-desperate-to-solve-mystery-of-playboy-rogue-35142877.html

that your PJH was an accountant, and I'm trying to remember which passenger record matched that occupation (1957 was traffic controller)

... ah yes, 1948 to Bombay. The 1957 record seems a bad match ...



I leave the info below to show the ruling out re the PJH in SA married to Mabel Una Fowler.

===========================

A family tree that contains this:

http://sandars.org.uk/Geneology/gendex/gendex.txt

Peter John /HERBERT [FORMERLY SANDARS]/ |1927|Godolming - Surrey - England| January 1989|Cape Town - South Africa|

Caryll Alys /HERBERT [FORMERLY SANDARS]

FOWLER|Mabel Una /FOWLER

Births Mar 1928
Sandars Peter J mother Gattey Guildford 2a 199

and 1932 for the other child's name

Marriages Dec 1924
GATTEY Phyllis E Sanders Kensington 1a 296a
Sandars John F Gattey Kensington 1a 296a

http://www.sandars.org.uk/Geneology/gedcom/SuperSandars.ged

1 NAME Mabel Una /FOWLER/
2 GIVN Mabel Una
2 SURN FOWLER
1 SEX F
1 _LIVING Y
1 BIRT
2 DATE 13/12/1932 <<< matches death record in England
2 PLAC Malmesbury - South Africa

1 NAME Peter John /HERBERT [FORMERLY SANDARS]/
2 GIVN Peter John
2 SURN HERBERT [FORMERLY SANDARS]
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE 1927
2 PLAC Godolming - Surrey - England
1 CHR
2 DATE December 1927
2 PLAC Surrey - England
1 DEAT
2 DATE January 1989
2 PLAC Cape Town - South Africa
1 BURI
2 DATE January 1989 <<< death
2 PLAC Cape Town - South Africa
1 NOTE Lived in South Africa.

NOTE Children changed surname to Herbert on their Mother's remarriage to inherit "Herbert Tools PLC" and the Herbert Coat of Arms if they wish to use it (Descendants use Sanders Arms with argumentations.)


So PJ Sandars was not your PJ Herbert, after all that.



for info, two Peter Herberts were born in 1922, both in the right quarter for a 10 October birthdate:

Births Dec 1922
Herbert Peter B mother Riches - Chorlton 8c 940
Herbert Peter H mother Sharvelle - Wandsworth 1d 963

Adding these links to other threads on the same person since this thread is being referenced in threads duplicating these efforts:

Nov 2017
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1369019

Oct 2017
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1368758

And related, Nov 2017
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1369015

Unfortunately John is no longer a member of genes, and cannot be contacted by pm.

the image of the 1957 passenger list does not appear to show him travelling with anyone

it gives
dob 20.10.22
UK address 86, Beaulah Hill, Upper Norwood, Ldn S.E.19
occupation Traffic Control
country of intended permanent residence S. Rhodesia

(probably this is the information 'J' has)


there may have been marital/divorce proceedings in South Africa - the name is the same but can't be sure it is the same person without seeing the actual record

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20150222002316A2F08663&DN=00000001

DEPOT KAB
SOURCE CSC
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2/1/1/2818
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 2001
PART 1
DESCRIPTION
ILLIQUID CASE. RESTITUTION OF CONJUGAL RIGHTS.
PETER JOHN HERBERT VERSUS MABEL UNA HERBERT (BORN FOWLER).
STARTING 19670000
ENDING 19670000


KAB is the Cape Town Archives Repository

http://www.national.archives.gov.za/naairs.htm

PETER HERBERT
Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Collections from
Australasia, Great Britain, Ireland, United States
Country
SOUTH AFRICA
Ship Name
EDINBURGH CASTLE
Birth Year
1922
Ship Departure Port
SOUTHAMPTON
Destination Port
CAPE
Departure Year
1957

You've added to an old thread, J

If you wish to try to contact John, click on his name to send a message, and if his e-mail is still the same, GR will notify him

The fact that no birth has been found could possibly be attributed to it being registered with a different surname

Hi
This might help you about Peter John Herbert born approx 1920 and no birth certifcate on UK records
He married Olive in 1940, she was from London and his address was Bristol
His father Sydney Herbert attended the wedding as witness and shown as retired
Peter then had two boys and 1 girl with Olive in Newton Abbot - what happened after that and where he went is a mystery until.......
In 1951 he appears in Birmingham and can be seen on electoral roles
He then lived with, not sure if married no registration with Thelma born 1925
They had three boys
Unfortunately, in 1955 she was killed with her sister in a car accident.
Two of the three boys ended up in a children's home in Birmingham and the middle boy went with herother sister - we do not where he is now
I understand that the brothers from Newton Abbot and Birmingham found each other in the late eighties but because of the lack of information things got very strained.
We believe that Peter John born in 1920 went to Rhodesia or South Africa in 1957 but no information found.
Hope this helps - we have been looking to find out some family history but have hit a blank too,
If you know any more let me know

Have you got the marriage certificate of Olive to Peter, for information about the families?

Is Peter your uncle, or uncle by his marriage?

To find the member who has him in her tree, use the Search/Search All Member Trees tab, above right.
(Probably a daughter from Olive's marriage)

John

Do you have Peter's parents names please or his siblings?

Dear Members/Helpers

Thank you all for your quick response, and you do have the correct Peter J Herbert.

However I know Olive E I Jarmain/Herbert (nee Nichols), passed away not knowing what happened to her first husband after 1957.

Some family members understand Peter was Olive's true love in life.

Again, thank you all for your suggestions, may they keep coming.

With kind regards.

JOHN.

PricklyHolly's marriage spouse?

Olive I E Herbert
Spouse Surname: Jarmain
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1975
Registration District: Torbay
Inferred County: Devonshire
Volume Number: 21
Page Number: 1877

JARMAIN Olive Edith Irene (Olive) A former Councillor, who passed peacefully away on 5th December 2010, aged 89 years. Beloved mother of 5 children ....

John (or a relative of his) would appear to have been born in Bournemouth in 1940 according to his tree, I cannot see a birth for that, either.

Peter John Herbert, 1920, place of birth not specified, is in a member's tree.

Suggest you try to contact her.

In case this is relevant...

??

..England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005
about Peter J Herbert Name: Peter J Herbert
Spouse Name: Olive I E Nichols
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Registration District: Newton Abbot
Inferred County: Devonshire
Volume Number: 5b
Page Number: 413

Edit:

England & Wales, Birth Index, 1916-2005
about Olive I E Nichols Name: Olive I E Nichols
Mother's Maiden Surname: Smith
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1921
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex, Suffolk
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 851

Hi John

There is no birth record showing when I use those details

Do you know who his mother was, maiden name if possible

Dear Members & Helpers

Searching for my uncle, possibly passed away, but would welcome knowledge of the above, after years and years of searching.

Peter J Herbert born Devon early 1920s. Last heard late 1950s, when he disappeared. He left UK in 1957 for Dublin, and the hotel given in Dublin as his address could be a 'convenient' address.

Peter did leave the UK with a female companion. The Lady, her relatives and friends, maybe able to give supply some information and knowledge of what became of Peter.

Peter could still be alive, although over 90, this would be welcome.

Any help and guidance greatly appreciated.

Thanking all in anticipation.

With kind regards.

JOHN.