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will get the cert, if I have to send for it myself, its driving me crazy, there is a lot of confusion in the bible, name put in and crossed out, I wonder if someone has tried to look further into the family and just dismissed the one's they couldn't fit in, and added the one's that they thought were in the family :-S

This is that family in 1911

Name: James Ellis
Age in 1911: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Walkley Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Ecclesall
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 11 Thrush St Walkley
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Scissors Grinder
Registration District: Ecclesall Bierlow
Registration District Number: 509
Sub-registration District: Ecclesall North
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Piece: 27701
Household Members:
Name Age
James Ellis 33
Lilly Ellis 29
Jessie Ellis 8
George Ellis 6
Betsy Ellis 3
James Ellis 1

But he's not James Fernie Ellis (unless there were two of them)

this is him - born 1881

Name: James Fernie Ellis
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Ecclesall
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 635 Ecclesall Rd
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Coal & Coke Traveller
Registration District: Ecclesall Bierlow
Registration District Number: 509
Sub-registration District: Ecclesall South
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 27790
Household Members:
Name Age
Lydia Tombinson 48
William Henry Bailey Tombinson 25
William Christie 48
James Fernie Ellis 30
Agnes Amy Wetherill 19

So if you have the right family from a bible then I'm suspicious that the Fernie Ellis connection is spurious......

Get Phyllis' birth certificate for starters!

Jude

Looking at the family bible, the entries don't go as far as Phylis in 1919 they stop at Margaret. There is no middle name for Lily.
James Fernie Ellis b 1876 Married Lily Barker 1902 Yorkshire
children,all born Ecclesall Bierlow, Sheffield
Jessie 1903
George 1905
Betsy 1908
James 1910
Margaret 1912

Moira welcome back.

Those names are going to be hard to pin down! There is a birth for Margaret A in Ecclesall Bierlow in 1912 which matches but precedes the marriage.

You need to start with the facts which would be Phyllis' birth certificate and then if James Fernie is named as the father then his christening is available on FHS (with an 1872 marriage for Frederick Fernie to Emma Maria Sambourne).

James is traceable on censuses back to 1881 (weeks old Jamie F)

Jude

I have more siblings for Phylis,
Jessie
Betsy
Sonny, (I take this to be James after his father)
Margaret

Flip and the fernie connection would fit with the earlier birth of the aviator as a brother to Phyllis

Moira take care

Jude

Is it hardly any wonder why Moira did not send you a PM - I quote:

"To acknowledge any info I may post, please do NOT click on my name".

However, the marriage Reggie found looks highly likely and you would need to get your friend to get the marriage certificate to be sure of their ancestry. First stop must be getting Phyllis's birth certificate to prove they are her parents though.

Laura Barker is too common a name to identify her without a father's name/ occupation. At a guess, James F could be James Fernie Ellis born 1881, (son of Frederick Fernie Ellis and Emma) and can be found on the census in Sheffield - but without the marriage cert it would be impossible to confirm. However, with a limited budget the birth cert may give his full names to save buying the marriage cert until your friend wants to chase down Laura/Lily.

Welcome back Moira.

Reggie - I am sorry but it is a gender thing and your comment is not only uncalled for it is insensitive.

Well that was the marriage I posted.......and which you haven't acknowledged


I'm pleased that you thought some of the helpers were worthy of PM's

Hello all, thank you for the kind words, hope to get news in a day or two after the new year.
I have been going through paperwork that my friend has and the info. I was given was wrong, so I am sorry to have waisted every ones time on it.
the correct info. I found was that
Phylis Mary Ellis Married George Havenhand in Sheffield 1939
Philiss father was James F Ellis mother poss Lilly or Laura Barker

Moira - thanks for your pm. Take your time to digest all this, speak to your friend and come back to us when you can!

Flip :-)

Jude

Moira - thanks for your pm. Take your time to digest all this, speak to your friend and come back to us when you can!

Flip :-)

Jude

Cut a bit of slack Reggie, Moira has not had a good day (personal reasons which I won't go into) - she'll be back soon.

Why send a PM.......why not add the explanation to the thread?

I'm sure that everyone who tried to help would have appreciated being considered.

I've had a PM from Moira apologising for not getting back to her thread, but she has been out all day. I'm sure she'll go through our findings and answer when she's feeling up to it.

Yes all...VERY frustrating that we are talking to ourselves :-)

Jude

I'm not going to use any more time on this until the OP returns, and answers the questions posed.

Strange though, she seems to know Lily's birthday (6 May), but not the birth year - maybe just remember's her.

That family tree can be traced back to one of the daughters of Phyllis and George

Jude

Nothing on freebmd to back up those details, Flip.....but, as we know, Ancestry trees are notoriously unreliable