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Thanks, TenerifeSun (and for the PM).

Taking me a while to pick up on what has gone before, but a couple of thoughts:

I wonder if the reason 20 Granby Street isn't on the 1911 is because it wasn't lived in (ie was just a business premises) and the census was for people not property.

Looking at that letter, Alfred, who would have been 10 in 1909, is writing from H Clare's shop, so we should be able to find Harry Clare in 1911 probably somewhere in Leicester.

Margaret, do we know to whom the letter was written? Might help if we can identify the Auntie.

I looked last night and couldn't find him but that doesn't mean he wasn't there, I might have missed him. I'm just going out to lunch and will come back to this when I come back. :-)

No Potty, unfortunately not. Oh how I wish he had said 'dear aunty so-and-so'. During my conversation with my friend it materialised that she had never heard of Sidney - she was under the impression that there were only the two boys - Alfred and Frederick. I also gleaned that she had never met her Grandfather but did know her grandmother who she knew as Elizabeth. ! My friend was born 1935 so it would appear Elizabeth may have changed to Lilian between 1906 (when Frederick was born) and 1911 and reverted back to Elizabeth by 1935. Could it be that she reverted back to Elizabeth Maybury after Harry Clare died ?? I too have looked for Harry Clare on 1911 without success. What a mysterious family.

Can't find Harry anywhere in 1911. Have tried searching just for Harrys who were photographers; Clares who were photographers; photographers in Leicester (there seem to have quite a lot of those!) but no luck.

Definitely, a mysterious family and another mystery, why was Alfred in the Pembroke Yeomanry, which seems to have been a Territorial regiment that never saw action ( a bit like the Dad's Army in WW2). Did the family at some time move to Wales?

This site has some info about the Yeomanry but the only thing it helps with is to show that Alfred joined in 1917 (In the 1917 renumbering of the Territorials, the Pembroke Yeomanry issued numbers from the block 290001-295000. Corps of Hussars)

It does look as if Alfred snr was committing bigamy when he married in 1943 as Elizabeth didn't die until 1952 - unless there was divorce.

You're right Potty - there was certainly some underhand goings-on. As for divorce - maybe there wasn't the cash around to be able to get a divorce or perhaps Elizabeth/Lilian wouldn't co-operate and Alfred snr got fed up waiting and took matters into his own hands ? Also am thinking - was Harry Clare actually married as well ? so just co-habited with Elizabeth/Lilian. I do get the feeling that Alfred spent a good part of his formative years with Harry or why, when he got baptised, did he include the Clare name and give his parents as Harry/Lil.y ?

This site looks to have some more info about Harry Clare's business - I think just the dates the business was there but you have to pay - £1.20:

http://www.victorianphotographers.co.uk/index.php?searchStr=Clare&_a=viewCat&Submit=%C2%A0

There are some war time photos on the net that have this heading

"Prangs for the Memories" Photos of 1941 Palestine and Syria from the Harry Clare Collection...


But no idea as to whether or not it is our Harry Clare

The whole of Granby St. is listed in the enumerators book for 1911 but nos. 2 - 10 and then 14 - 38 were marked as lock-up shops and therefore no-one in residence.

No. 12 in the middle of these was a Public House and therefore shows the Arch family + servants as they lived on the premises.

Dea x

Well done Dea :-D

So Potty was right :-)

The Harry Clare responsible for the WWII photo collection appears to have served with the Royal Australian Air Flying Corps 3 Squadron - Ground crew.

Could 'your' Harry Clare have been Australian?

There is a picture of him here:

http://www.3squadron.org.au/subpages/HarryClare.htm

Scroll right down to the bottom for picture.

Dea x

I've been on google earth this afternoon looking for 20 Granby Street, Leicester. It is right in the centre of town and is amongst a row of shops, so I imagine it was just a shop way back then. Question is: where the heck in 1911 did Hary lay his head ???

Unless my friend comes up with some gem (although she didn't even know of a Harry) I think we are just going to let our imaginations run and accept/assume that Elizabeth(alias Lilian) parted from her husband, left her son Frederick with his grandparents on the night of 1911 census, and that the other son Sidney stayed with Alfred senior.

I will endeavour to sort all this out but I think in the meantime I will have to turn to the other side of the family - Conolly and Powell and that looks equally as challenging.

Thank you all for tying so hard to get to the bottom of this. I will keep you informed of any progress I may make.

According to Kellys Directory for Leicester in 1908 The Clares weren't at 20 Granby Street then

TS...Chris Ho posted the 1908 Kelly's earlier...Kelly's Directory of Leicestershire & Rutland, 1908. 20, Granby Street. Barr Brothers Photographers)

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp

No Harry Clare but it WAS a photographers....perhaps Harry was working there and eventually took over the business? The Harry in the WW2 photos doesn't look old enough to be "our" Harry :-)

Just realised, in the first census posted Alfred senior is a photographer...the plot thickens!

1901 census

Person: MAYBURY, Alfred Address: 5, Siddeley Street, Toxteth Park

CRONE, John Head Married M 32 1869 Cab Driver
Maryport, Cumberland VIEW
CRONE, Isabella Wife Married F 32 1869
Scotland VIEW
CRONE, Katherine Daughter F 4 1897
Lpool, Lancashire VIEW
CRONE, John Son M 1 1900
Lpool, Lancashire VIEW
CRONE, Edward Brother Single M 24 1877 Cab Proprietor's Manager
Lpool, Lancashire VIEW
SHARPLES, Harry Boarder Single M 26 1875 Cab Driver
Lpool, Lancashire VIEW
MAYBURY, Alfred Boarder Married M 23 1878 Photographer
M'chr, Lancashire VIEW
MAYBURY, Elizabeth Boarder Married F 30 1871
M'chr, Lancashire VIEW
MAYBURY, Alfred Boarder Single M 2 1899
Lpool, Lancashire VIEW
ELLIS, Annie Boarder Widow F 56 1845 Own Means
Poplar, London

Potty

The only other thing I can find for Alfred Snr is a possible on New York passenger lists but I cannot view it.....this is the record

Alfred Maybury
Arrival Date: 27 Jul 1907
Birth Date: abt 1878
Birth Location: England
Birth Location Other: Manchester, England
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Arabic
Search Ship Database: Search the Arabic in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

And he was a photographer...and his nok was wife Prestatyn :-S

What we have to be careful about is that there were two Alfred Mayburys who were photographers one with Edward as a middle name

I have a great conspiracy theory...Alfred Edward Maybury was a photographer and he either knew or worked with Harry Clare a photographer.....and somewhere along the line Elizabeth left Alfred with two sons who if not actually Harry's came so much to regard him as their father that they took his name....doesn't explain why Sidney stayed with Alfred or why in 1911 Alfred is no longer a photographer but a commercial traveller in butchers supplies.

Hey Jude. I love this thread, there is so much going on that I forget who is who without checking back.

Will we ever get the answers? :-S

Hey Jude, also why in the 1911 Lillian/Elizabeth says she has had only two children.

I did wonder if Alfred in the 1911 was a different Alfred (occupation) but his son Sidney has the middle name of Lord, as Alfred Jnr did.

TS, No I think this is going to be one of those unsolved ones, unless Margaret's friend comes up with something! Very frustrating!

Errrmmm I might just have to take a little peek at the Conolly/Powell side of this family ;-)