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Well, I followed the advice and purchased a copy of the marriage record for Joseph William Ball and Lucy Jones. This has obviously led me to their fathers' names, Jesse Ball and Caleb Jones.

I decided to look further into Jesse Ball, to try and find Josephs mother and siblings if nothing else.

What I have found is a record for Jesse being born in belper in 1951, though the 1881 census has him born in 1846. On the 1881 census he is living on primrose hill in blackwell (where joseph william also lives) and widowed. Now trying to find info on Josephs mother is nigh on impossible. I have paid to view some records and I can't find a name anywhere. Other research on freeBMD has her listed as Elizabeth Reek or Hannah Hopkinson.

After further research I think Elizabeth Reek was Jesse's wife for a short period of five years, as then she died in 1979 (aged 32). There is a record of their marriage in mansfield in 1874.

But Joseph was born in 1884 and since there are no female names knocking about, am I to assume he was illegitimate?

I feel like I'm down the rabbit hole and getting nowhere fast.

I would appreciate it if anyonoe could shed light on the matter. i am interested in finding out more about the Ball side of my family.

And also, when Lucy Ball nee Jones was institutionalised it's like she dropped off the face of the planet?! I can't find anything for her after 1918.

Thank you.

Thank you Sylvia! Chesterfield makes more sense because of that very reason. I had to put my Banns in at Chesterfield and I live up the road from Blackwell.

Thank you to all for your help so far!

I have responded to your message Marie.

Best wishes
Elle

Eleanor ...................

when looking for deaths etc on freebmd, the place showing is NOT necessarily the place where the event took place.

It IS the name of the Registration District, which includes the place where the death or whatever took place.

It is possible to find out which places are included in a Registration District on freebmd

eg, with Joseph W Ball

Deaths Sep 1962 (>99%)
BALL Joseph W 78 Chesterfield 3a 88

Click on Chesterfield

District Information

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page
Deaths Sep 1962
BALL Joseph W 78 Chesterfield 3a 88

The district Chesterfield is in the county of Derbyshire; information about it can be found here

"here" is in blue ............... click on that

and you will see a long table giving all the names of the places included in Chesterfield registration District.


Blackwell is on that list.



When searching for people on freebmd, do not enter all their names in full ................

use the * as a free card .......... the search engine will look for that initial as well as all names beginning with that initial

so, you would search for .........

Joseph W* Ball



Good luck




sylvia

Eleanor, please check your messages inbox - I've found further info.

On freeBMD there are 8 births surname BALL mmn Jones between 1911 and 1918 in Mansfield

2 of them are very close together in 1916 so there maybe 2 Ball/Jones families

That cetainly sounds possible.

My grandad has just been round with some fresh baked bread so I updated him.

Turns out he remembers stories about Lucy Ball being institutionalised. Something to do with having all those kids close together (she had several more after that census) driving her mad... you'd think if she was constantly getting caught he'd give her a break! Poor woman :(

I have sent away for their wedding certificate and a few others so far, and that website you linked me to is acting goat at the minute so I'll give it a couple hours and try to contact Linda Ball again.

Possibles ??

Olive Ball born Q4 1909 Mansfield ref 7b 121

Olive Ball married Thomas Etches Q3 1935 Mansfield ref 7b 351

Olive Etches , death Q4 1975 aged 66 (dob 19 Nov 1909 ) Chesterfield -
ref 6 0254

Thank you.

There is a tree on Ancestry for this family and the owner is a Linda Ball who I think must be a descendant of Freddy as there is no other children of Joseph William on the tree
You can view this tree for free on the Ancestry sister site

https://www.mundia.com/gb

Theres no memory of an Olive wither... So I wonder if she passed away...

Yes I found a Lucy Jones. My grandad could remember nothing about her, but if she passed away in 1918 He wouldn't have known her. Am I able to purchase death certificates? I'd like to know why she died.

I will definitely be purchasing that in the near future. Thank you for your help.

That second one makes more sense to me as I do not know what could have taken him to Belper from Blackwell?! Whereas Chesterfield is a bigger township.

Because there are a few Joseph William Ball's of a similar age you really need to buy his marriage certificate to confirm his father's details:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Joseph William Ball
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1907
Registration District: Mansfield
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 132

Records on Page:
Name
Joseph William Ball
Lucy Jones

ADDED: Bertie's birth record shows mother's surname as Jones.

His name may have been Joseph William, but it was only recorded as Joseph W for many years - cannot remember exact dates.

Eleanor, why do you think the 1970 death isn't the right one?

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Joseph William Ball
Birth Date: 15 Jul 1886
Date of Registration: Mar 1970
Age at Death: 83
Registration District: Belper
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 186

Although the birth year is given as 1886 that is only as reliable as the informant's knowledge.

ADDED:

But this looks like a possibility

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joseph W Ball
Birth Date: abt 1884
Date of Registration: Sep 1962
Age at Death: 78
Registration District: Chesterfield
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 88

Everything there makes sense as to what I have been told by my grandad. And thats the address too...

i was looking for the death of Joseph William, as my grandad stresses to me constantly that that was his name and everyone called him "Happy" because he was always singing...

?
1911 England Census
Joseph William Ball Age in 1911: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male
Birth Place: Blackwell, Derbyshire, England Civil Parish: Blackwell
County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England
Street Address: 177 Primrose Hill Blackwell Derbyshire
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner Roadman Registration District: Mansfield
Registration District Number: 428 Sub-registration District: Blackwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Piece: 20304
Joseph William Ball 26
Lucy Ball 25
Gladys Edna Ball 3
Freddy Ball 2
Olive Ball 1
Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 20304.

Hi Eleanor, FreeBMD is an ongoing project so the death record may not yet have been added.

Is this the correct family in 1911?

BALL, Joseph William Head Married M 26 1885 Coal Miner Roadman Derbyshire Blackwell
BALL, Lucy Wife Married 4 years F 25 1886 Derbyshire Bolsover
BALL, Gladys Edna Daughter Single F 3 1908 Derbyshire Blackwell
BALL, Freddy Son Single M 2 1909 Derbyshire Blackwell
BALL, Olive Daughter Single F 1 1910 Derbyshire Blackwell

RG number: RG14 Piece: 20304
Reference: RG14PN20304 RG78PN1217 RD428 SD3 ED5 SN140

Registration District: Mansfield
Sub District: Blackwell
Enumeration District: 5
Parish: Blackwell

Address: 177 Primrose Hill Blackwell Alfreton County: Nottinghamshire

Were you looking for deaths of Joseph William or Joseph W?