Find Ancestors

Christina and Prickles

You know, you might just be right!!

Cheers

Steve

I am really pleased you said that Christina.......As bizzare as it sounds, i just have a feeling about it.

I have searched through all the census records for both Sarah and Frederick in the hope that there might just be a clue.

I failed miserably though!

Prickles. x

This doesn't give an age, just says adult baptism.

If this is Sarah's eldest child, why would he get baptised 3 years after his marriage?

Be interesting to see if a father is named on his birth cert.


Birmingham, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912
Name: Arthur Edward Banks
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1876
Baptism Place: New Street, Christ Church, Warwickshire, England
Father: Frederick Banks.....Jeweller
Mother: Sarah Banks
Reference Number: DRO 26
Archive Roll: M9/M10/M262

Abode: Heaton St.


For what it's worth I'm with Prickles. Same Frederick keeping a mistress and a wife.

As i posted earlier.........her death certificate states she was the widow of Frederick Banks too.

I think i would have to purchase a copy of her first childs birth cert just to see what info is on there.

Very frustrating.

Christina

Thanks, at least that settled that Frederick.

Everyone else!

This is going to remain a mystery, never mind, thanks to all those that helped. Still find it strange that Sarah had so many kids without a husband? Also Samuel's marriage cert states father was Frederick. ho hum the joys of genealogy!

Thanks again

Steve

Well that's that then!!!

nice find Christina, can at least rule him out.
Maddie

Burial for the Frederick Banks born in June 1839. His age is given as 1yr 3 months on the image.

Birmingham, England, Burials, 1813-1964
Name: Frederick Banks
Birth Year: abt 1839
Burial Date: 22 Sep 1840
Burial Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Burial Age: 1
Father: Thomas Banks
Mother: Ann Banks
Reference Number: DRO 41
Archive Roll: M94

If you purchased Walter's birth cert, you'd have the facts................at least as far as they were given

But, whatever else....Sarah was not married to him. There is no census record of her as a married woman..........single with children in 1861...........widowed with more children thereafter

a possibility ????

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Frederick Banks
Name: Frederick Banks
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1853
Registration District: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 1__

sadly does not give dob or age

Reggie

Two Fredericks (see below) I think the second one is the one I'm chasing? Evidence, same evidence I've had for the past 26 years of looking for my family tree. Sometimes it's down to a hunch or gut feeling. Not an exacting science but surprisingly fruitful at times.

Cheers

Steve

Frederick Banks
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 7 September 1832 St. Philip, Birmingham, Warwick, England
residence: Birmingham, Warwick, England
father:Theophilus Banksmother:Elizabeth
Frederick Banks
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 10 August 1832
christening: 7 September 1832 SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
father:Theophilus Banksmother:ElizabethNameFrederick BanksGenderMaleChristening Date07 Sep 1832Christening PlaceSAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLANDBirth Date10 Aug 1832BirthplaceDeath DateName NoteRaceFather's NameTheophilus BanksFather's BirthplaceFather's AgeMother's NameElizabethMother's BirthplaceMother's AgeIndexing Project (Batch) NumberC04179-5System OriginEngland-ODMGS Film number813721, 813722, 813723Reference ID

Frederick Banks
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 14 June 1839
christening: 8 July 1839 SAINT MARTIN,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
father:Thomas Banksmother:AnnNameFrederick BanksGenderMaleChristening Date08 Jul 1839Christening PlaceSAINT MARTIN,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLANDBirth Date14 Jun 1839BirthplaceDeath DateName NoteRaceFather's NameThomas BanksFather's BirthplaceFather's AgeMother's NameAnnMother's BirthplaceMother's AgeIndexing Project (Batch) NumberC01072-9System OriginEngland-ODMGS Film number919771, 919772, 919773Reference ID

Births Mar 1863 (>99%)
BANKS Walter Birmingham 6d 186

Fathers on marriage certs can be invented..................info on censuses isn't always true. She called herself a widow as early as 1871

It has already been shown that BANKS was the woman's maiden name

Have you any BIRTH certs for her children?

Have you looked for baptisms?

You say there were two Fredericks.........have you any evidence to support this theory?

Dear all

Thanks for all the information. All this relates to my post of last week as I’m still trying to gather info for my late Mum’s cousin, who was Banks before marriage.

Maddie, I think you’ve done what I did and followed the wrong Frederick Banks, it is confusing as there appears to be two in Birmingham at about the same time and to add to the confusion some of their children had the same names, although the one’s you have found always appear to have a middle initial. The one’s I’m following just appear to have one name.

Sarah is widowed, married and single? The fact that Sarah was the mother to all the children (particularly Walter, my cousin’ Gt. Grandfather) is pretty certain (as certain as anything can be at 160+ years after the events) because she appears on 3 or 4 census returns, with various of her offspring. I’ve found the name Frederick as the father from the marruiage record of one son Samuel. I could be grasping at straws but see below.

Samuel Banks
Son
England and Wales Census, 1871 birth: 1860 Birmingham, Warwickshire
residence: 1871 Birmingham, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
________________________________________
• mother:Sarah Banks
• other:Arthur Banks, Frederick Banks, Susan Banks, Walter Banks, Emma Banks, Frank Banks...
• NameSamuel Banks
• Event TypeCensus
• Event Date1871
• GenderMale
• Age11
• Relationship to Head of HouseholdSon
• BirthplaceBirmingham, Warwickshire
• Schedule TypeHousehold
• Registration DistrictBirmingham
• Sub-DistrictSt George
• ParishBirmingham
• CountyWarwickshire

Then the wedding

Samuel Banks
England Marriages, 1538–1973 birth: 1860
marriage: 18 September 1882 All Saints, Birmingham, Warwick, England
• father:Frederick Banks
• spouse:Louisa Hortin
• other:Thomas Hortin
• NameSamuel Banks
• Birth Date1860
• Birthplace
• Age22
• Spouse's NameLouisa Hortin
• Spouse's Birth Date1861
• Spouse's Birthplace
• Spouse's Age21
• Event Date18 Sep 1882
• Event PlaceAll Saints, Birmingham, Warwick, England
• Father's NameFrederick Banks
• Mother's Name
• Spouse's Father's NameThomas Hortin
• Spouse's Mother's Name
• Race
• Marital StatusSingle
• Previous Wife's Name
• Spouse's Race
• Spouse's Marital StatusSingle
• Spouse's Previous Husband's Name
• Indexing Project (Batch) NumberM00803-2
• System OriginEngland-EASy
• GS Film number1520010
• Reference IDit 2, p 18, no 36

Thanks again for everyone’s help!

Steve

Dear All

Thanks and confused! Maddie I think you made the same mistake as me and followed the wrong Frederick. You can see why I'm confused as Sarah is married, widowed and single,

That Sarah was the mother of all the kids is in little doubt and I came up with Frederick as the Father from a marriage record of one child Samuel born 1860, see below.

Samuel Banks
Son
England and Wales Census, 1871 birth: 1860 Birmingham, Warwickshire
residence: 1871 Birmingham, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Marriages Sep 1882 (>99%)
________________________________________
Baker Emma Elizabeth Birmingham
6d 22

BANKS Samuel Birmingham
6d 22


Butcher John Birmingham
6d 22

Hortin Louisa Birmingham
6d 22

mother:Sarah Banks
•other:Arthur Banks, Frederick Banks, Susan Banks, Walter Banks, Emma Banks, Frank Banks...
• NameSamuel Banks
• Event TypeCensus
• Event Date1871
• GenderMale
• Age11
• Relationship to Head of HouseholdSon
• BirthplaceBirmingham, Warwickshire
• Schedule TypeHousehold
• Registration DistrictBirmingham
• Sub-DistrictSt George
• ParishBirmingham
• CountyWarwickshire

Then the wedding...

Samuel Banks
England Marriages, 1538–1973 birth: 1860
marriage: 18 September 1882 All Saints, Birmingham, Warwick, England
• father:Frederick Banks
• spouse:Louisa Hortin
• other:Thomas Hortin
• NameSamuel Banks
• Birth Date1860
• Birthplace
• Age22
• Spouse's Name Louisa Hortin
• Spouse's Birth Date1861
• Spouse's Birthplace
• Spouse's Age21
• Event Date18 Sep 1882
• Event PlaceAll Saints, Birmingham, Warwick, England
• Father's Name Frederick Banks
• Mother's Name
• Spouse's Father's NameThomas Hortin
• Spouse's Mother's Name
• Race
• Marital StatusSingle
• Previous Wife's Name
• Spouse's Race
• Spouse's Marital StatusSingle
• Spouse's Previous Husband's Name
• Indexing Project (Batch) NumberM00803-2
• System OriginEngland-EASy
• GS Film number1520010
• Reference IDit 2, p 18, no 36

All this stems from my post of last week, looking for informatiom for my late Mum's cousin who was a Banks before marriage.

Thanks so much for everyone help

Steve

1901 England Census
about Frederick Banks Name: Frederick Banks
Age: 68
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Gender: Male
Where born: N

Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration District: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: City Asylum
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 1
Piece: 2850
Folio: 159
Page Number: 5

Frederick Banks 68 Jeweller Gold.......Lunatic

The death record of Sarah Banks is on Ancestry.

Widow of Frederick Banks.....Jeweller Journeyman.

I am on a mission now to see if i can find some evidence.

Inspector Prickles!!

Edit: No evidence found.

This might be a bit far fetched.......and maybe too much of a coincidence regarding Banks v Banks........but i am wondering if it's posssible that Frederick Banks who married Emma Jane Stubbs is also the Father of Sarah Banks children.

As you can see from the 1861 census......it states Sarah is unmarried.

From then on she appears as a widow.

There does not appear to be a Banks/Banks marriage.

Frederick Banks is a Jeweller and obviously very well off.

Sarah's son Arthur's marriage record...


Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937
about Arthur Edward Banks (Chaser)
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1852
Marriage Date: 23 Feb 1873
Marriage Age: 21
Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Matthias, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Elizabeth Gethen Harvey
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Marriage Age: 19
Father: Frederick Banks >>>>Jeweller
Spouse's Father: Jesse Harvey
Reference Number: DRO 8
Archive Roll: 619

Emma and Samuel's marriage record's also show...Father Frederick Banks...Jeweller.

Name: Frederick Banks
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 07 Sep 1832
Christening Place: St. Philip, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Theophilus Banks
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02079-7
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 502189
Reference ID: item 1 p 456

parish record for Fredericks marraige

Name: Frederick Banks
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Emma Jane Stubbs
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 22 Nov 1856
Event Place: Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father's Name: Theophilus Banks
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: James Stubbs
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00732-4
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1520007
Reference ID: it 349, p 11, no 21