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Thanks Ozi - where in the world is it you are based?

And yes, a fair bit thank you - and some more hurdles but all part of them! How is your own research (even if a bit sporadic of late)!

Peter

Hello Peter, Sorry to be so long getting back to you. I'm in the middle of selling one house and starting to build another 150 km away. Not much time for family history.

It looks like you have managed to move ahead. I'm sure that is the Sarah in 1851. All signs lead to that.

Have you got any further in the last month?

Ozi

There is a marriage between a James DUNCALF and Mary WORRALL in Frodsham Cheshire on 27 Jan 1835.

And then this baptism:


Sarah Duncalf
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening:
15 November 1835
Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
residence:
15 November 1835, Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
father:
James Duncalf
mother:
Mary


Could that be Sarah from the 1851 census?

Hi there, finally got around to ordering the certificate of Mary Ann Woods in 1853 (later than planned). It reads:

25th March 1853 at Fryer Street, Runcorn, Cheshire
Mary Ann Woods
Father of Samuel Woods
Daughter of Mary Woods formerly DUNCALF nee WORRALL
Occuptation Labourer

Thank you!

Peter

Thanks Ozi, I will order it next week - need to get this one sorted. The curiosity is too much haha!

Well, I've checked, and everything is very clear on the image and the transcription is correct. I think her being Mary's daughter before her marriage to Samuel is very likely.

It looks like that birth certificate of one of Mary's younger children is the only way to go.

Ozi

I am not Ozi as my subscription ran out last week but thanks for the kind words.

Peter

Well done on relating Kitty. You're not bad yourself.

Are you able to check the image of 1861 to see if the transcribed facts are correct?

Ozi

Now this is interesting ... Catherine Fallows is Kitty Woods ... look here:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1333201

You are great at this!

Now, I do think personally that 13 years difference is a LOT of confusing for one person - PERHAPS, Ann junior is a child of Mary BEFORE she 'married' Samuel Woods?!

1851 England Census
NAME: Ann Cooper
SPOUSE: James Cooper
BIRTH: abt 1828 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
RESIDENCE: 1851 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1861 England Census
NAME: Ann Cooper
SPOUSE: James Cooper
BIRTH: abt 1831 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
RESIDENCE: 1861 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1871 England Census
NAME: Ann Cooper - Waterman's wife; James obviously away from home that night.
BIRTH: abt 1830 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
RESIDENCE: 1871 - Runcorn, Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1881 England Census
NAME: Ann Cooper
SPOUSE: James Cooper
BIRTH: abt 1829 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
RESIDENCE: 1881 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1891 England Census
NAME: Ann Cooper
SPOUSE: James Cooper
BIRTH: abt 1831 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
RESIDENCE: 1891 - Runcorn, Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1901 England Census
NAME: Ann Cooper - widow in this census
BIRTH: abt 1830 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
RESIDENCE: 1901 - Runcorn, Runcorn, Cheshire, England

1911 England Census
NAME: Ann Daniels
SPOUSE: Edwin Daniels
BIRTH: abt 1831 - Runcorn, Cheshire, England
RESIDENCE: 2 Apr 1911 - Penketh, Lancashire, England

Sorry I had not posted the 1847 marriage ... basically, if this Ann aged 17, the one born 1830, then one at home in 1861 with her father Samuel Woods, aged 18 was born c. 1843?

So, are they the same person? Odd. But 13 years apart?

Am I missing something here?

"England Marriages, 1538–1973 "
Name: James Cooper
Spouse's Name: Ann Woods
Event Date: 1847
Event Place: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: John Cooper
Spouse's Father's Name: Samuel Woods
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M86636-9

That IS interesting. However, I'm not sure what you mean about age, as only Edwin's is recorded.

Ozi

Great Ozi - I had the same one and I shall order that cert.

Funny, I came across these when looking for Ann ...


Samuel Woods

FATHER_IN_LAW

England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000



child:Ann Cooper
other:Edwin Daniels, William Daniels

NameEdwin Daniels
Event TypeMarriage
Event Date27 Jun 1903
Event PlaceAll Saints, Runcorn, Cheshire, England
GenderMale
Age (Formatted)65y
Marital StatusWidowed
Father's NameWilliam Daniels
Mother's Name
Spouse's NameAnn Cooper
Spouse's Marital StatusWidowed
Spouse's Father's NameSamuel Woods
Spouse's Mother's Name
GS Film number1656552
Digital Folder Number004018387

But the ages do not add up - both would be living together at the same time. Was this common?

Peter

yes, this one seems to be the one that stands out for her.

Births Jun 1853 WOODS Mary Ann Runcorn 8a 215

2 daughters named Ann. This usually means the first Ann died. We think it a little ghoulish today but it was a common thing in the 1800s.

Familysearch concentrated on baptisms before official birth registration as the latter was already available. It is starting to change.

Check out http://forebears.co.uk/england/cheshire/runcorn. It may be of help.

Ozi

Thanks Ozibird - I wonder if Sarah Duncalf was an adopted daughter? How odd though ... quite strange. Hmmmm any ideas? I am quite lost as to why this is.

And also, I need to order daughter Mary's birth certificate (daughter of Samuel and Mary Woods) ... can you spot her specific birth index? I think I have it but looking for a second opinion. Yeah I must order it.

And it seems as though Samuel had TWO daughters named ANN?! One born 1830, one born c. 1843. And odd, can't seem to find any baptism for his children from the late 1840s on familysearch ... maybe not covered?

England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
Samuel Duncalf
marriage: 16 February 1836 Frodsham, Cheshire, England
spouse: Ruth Pickering

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Sarah Jane Duncalf
christening: 4 December 1836 Frodsham, Cheshire, England
father: Samuel Duncalf
mother: Ruth

England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
Samuel Duncalf
christening: 26 May 1839 Frodsham, Cheshire, England
father: Samuel Duncalf
mother: Martha - this could be an error on the part of one of the transcribers, in 1839 or more recent times.

Mary Duncalf
christening: 25 July 1841 Frodsham, Cheshire, England
father: Samuel Duncalf
mother: Ruth

Births Sep 1847 Duncalf John Runcorn 19 193

Births Jun 1850 Duncalf Hannah Runcorn 19 267


1841 England Census
Name: Sarah Duncalf
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Frodsham
Hundred: Eddisbury (Second Division)
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration District: Runcorn
Sub-registration District: Frodsham
Piece: 97
Book: 10
Folio: 6
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Duncalf 30 - Ag Lab
Ruth Duncalf 25
Sarah Duncalf 4
Samuel Duncalf 2

Sarah's missing in 1851 so it's a possibility she is the one with Samuel Woods.
1851 England Census
Name: Samuel Duncalf
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ruth Duncalf
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Kingsley, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Kingsley
Ecclesiastical parish: Frodsham
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Registration District: Runcorn
Sub-registration District: Budworth
Piece: 2164
Folio: 809
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Duncalf 44 - Grocer; Cudington
Ruth Duncalf 39
Mary Duncalf 6
John Duncalf 3
Hannah Duncalf 10 Mo

All others born Kingsley.

I have searched and searched for Samuel and Mary's marriage with no luck. There is the possibility they may not have married. I find this unlikely considering they were in the community of Runcorn before and after their relationship began.

Mary consistently gives her birthplace as Overton except for 1861 where she is recorded as Five Crosses. This is in the town of Frodsham. There is also an Overton Hill in Frodsham.

Looking at the birth dates of their children, it seems their relationship started in the late 1840s as Elizabeth, probably their eldest, is registered in 1848. Although you've got to wonder who Ann is in 1861. She was born after Deborah died but a good 4-5 years before the younger children. Having been born in Overton you wonder if she's Mary's child.

As for Sarah Duncalf, also born in Overton, as you say - where does she fit in? See next post for more on her.

As for your Mary's maiden name, yes, it should be on a birth certificate of one of her children.

Also, I think this might be Kitty - can we spot her in the census also?

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1913 (>99%)
Fallows Catherine 87 Runcorn 8a 294 Scan available - click to view

Ah thank you - could we find the Miller family after this date? I have looked but nothing on the 1881 census - also seems Mary Woods senior died in 1882, and Mary Woods junior married my ancestor Michael Lever in 1871, about seven weeks after this census ... I already have information on her family but have struggled finding a death. Here she is in 1881/1891 when I lose her - please don't look for her spouse and children as I already have information on them:

1881 Census Living 35 James Street Widnes Lancashire
Michael LEVER Head Mar 26 Alkali Worker Manuf Born Bolton Lancashire
Mary LEVER Wife Mar 25 Born Runcorn Cheshire
Henry LEVER Son 9 Scholar Born Weston Cheshire
James LEVER Son 6 Scholar Born Weston Cheshire

1891 Census Living 13 Robert Street Widnes Lancashire
Sarah A. SHAW Head Wid 36 Housekeeper Born Runcorn Cheshire
George SHAW Son S 17 Gass Fitter (App) Born Widnes Lancashire
Ada SHAW Daur 11 Scholar Born Widnes Lancashire
Jack SHAW Son 9 Scholar Born Widnes Lancashire
Alice SHAW Daur 7 Scholar Born Widnes Lancashire
Lydia SHAW Daur 6 Scholar Born Widnes Lancashire
Harry SHAW Son 4 Born Widnes Lancashire
Peter SHAW Son 3 Born Widnes Lancashire
Mary A. LEVER Boarder M 37 Laundress Born Widnes Lancashie
Anna LEVER Daur 8 Scholar Born Runcorn Cheshire
Samuel GORST Boarder Wid 64 Agricultural Labour Born Frodsham Chehire

Also, seems as though Jane Woods died in 1895 (another sister), but can you spot John Woods in 1901/1911?

Thank you again!