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Thanks all for your help again. I know for sure now that the Frederick Robert Pleasance I was looking for was Frederick Robert Knapp born June 1900, Bethnal green, along with twin William Wallace Knapp who died later the same year.
Choccy found a William Wallace Knapp born in 1868 and died in 1910 and MarieCeleste suggests that the parents could be William and Charlotte, but doubts that William who died in 1910 could be the father? Well done to all that have found anything of the twins and their parents, because other than their births I can't find a single thing about them or parents? calling again for the assistance of those in the know to solve the Pleasance Knapp Mystery..
Kind regards to all
Nicky

I do agree MC but I can't seem to find anything more at the moment to prove this one way or the other !

I will keep at it!

Dea xxx

Nicola, the baptism for those two were posted on page 1, yes they were twins.

Their parents were William and Charlotte, William was a porter. I doubt that the William Wallace Knapp who died 1910 was their father (but may be wrong).

It is still possible!

If Fred was the last entry on the page then William could be the first entry on the following page so they could still be twins !

Dea x

New info..My Frederick Pleasance, born 1900? was most certainly not blind, he 100% married Beatrice Iles in 1925, Shoreditch and he was reportedly a twin. Think I have been barking up the wrong tree..Just found Frederick Robert Knapp and William Wallace Knapp born June 1900, Bethnal Green. Surely this is my family..just 1 query the vol page is 213 for Fred and 214 for William, could they be twins???

Thanks everyone again for your help,
The Black family and Richmond Road connection is 100% the right family (thanks Dea) The family suggests that at some point, possibly Frederick Robert Pleasance changed he's name to Knapp, don't know why? just that the name Knapp is remembered by the family as being a part of their ancestry. The info about William going to Canada in 1911 and wife Sarah and daughter Maude travellling to Canada in 1912, ticks all boxes.. just the question of why the 2 son's John born 1898 and Frederick born 1900 where left behind...

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915

Name:William W Knapp

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1868

Date of Registration:
Jul-Aug-Sep 1910

Age at Death:
42

Registration District:
Orsett

Inferred County:Essex

Volume:4a Page:209


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: William Wallace Knapp
Probate Date: 5 Oct 1910
Death Date: 17 Jul 1910
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: London, England

of 93 London Road, Grays, Essex
Probate to George Lyndon Rhodes, Outfitter
£1150 9s 2d



EDIT - this one had a wife Evelyn living at the same address in 1911

which obviously doesn't preclude him from being the father of Frederick Robert Knapp!

not seeing them in 1901 or 1911!

That is the one I was looking at Choccy but was unsure if the connection to that name was just 'presumed' because the name of the boarder on 1911 was mistranscribed as such.

Dea x

Deaths Sep 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knapp William Wallis 0 Bethnal G. 1c 138

??


Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KNAPP Frederick Robert Bethnal G. 1c 214

KNAPP William Wallace Bethnal G. 1c 213



London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Frederick Roberts Knapp

Record Type: Baptism

Baptism Date: 6 May 1900

Father's Name: William Wallace Knapp

Mother's Name: Charlotte Knapp

Parish or Poor Law Union:Haggerston All Saints

Borough:Hackney

Register Type: Parish Registers


William Wallace Knapp baptised same day, with same date of birth

Address - 47 Huntingdon Street

Occupation of father - Porter

>>>>>>>>Date of birth - 15th April 1900

This question is relevant to a 'theory' which I have been following.

You say above:
"There is a connection with the name Knapp somewhere and a Edith Knapp aged 24 Boarder was living with Sarah C and Mary Pleasance in 1911"

In actual fact, that boarder is edith MAPP who's family live on the same road in the 1911 - she had been a servant and was now working as a shop assistant, presumably in the shop where she was residing with the Pleasance's.

I don't think there is any connection other than that?

However, do you have any other reason why you think there is a connection to the name 'KNAPP' as this 'could' be of some relevance.

Dea x

Sarah and Maud travelled out to Canada in 1912.

Britain: outbound passenger lists


Name: Mrs S PLEASANCE
Date of departure: 22 November 1912
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Halifax, Canada
Passenger destination: Halifax, Canada
Date of Birth: 1875 (calculated from age)
Age: 37
Marital status:
Sex: Female
Occupation: Wife


The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage:

Maud PLEASANCE - aged 9

Ship: VICTORIAN
Official Number: 121216
Master's name: E Outram
Steamship Line: Allan Line Steamship Co. Ltd.
Where bound: St Johns NF, Canada
Square feet: 16326
Registered tonnage: 6743
Passengers on voyage: 640

Dea x

You really do need that Marriage cert because, as I have mentioned above, I do NOT think that the 'William and Sarah' family is the family of 'your' Frederick.

However, relating to the post of the passengers to Canada by Choccy above, I do believe they are the ones missing from this family on 1911 census.

Wm snr. is stated as 43 and a bricklayer and the younger one is 19 and a grocer. - They are aiming for Sackertoon? and there is some extra writing on there which is very hard to read! - It says (something like) _______ to brother in law ________ proposed family to follow ________

If anyone would like to see if they can read it I will send the image by pm.

Dea x

Births Sep 1925 (>99%)
Pleasance Joyce C Iles Shoreditch 1c 123

Dea x

Marriages Mar 1949 (>99%)
Black John H Pleasance Hackney 5c 1280

Pleasance Joyce C Black Hackney 5c 1280

Dea x

An ER with a full set of middle names:

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Beatrice May Pleasance
Year: 1935
County or Borough: Hackney
Ward or Division/Constituency: Shoreditch and Stoke Newington
Street Address: 17 Hemsworth Street

with Frederick Robert Pleasance.

At the same address are Louisa Cowdery; Harriet Elizabeth Fenton; Robert William & Minnie Florence Heavens.

I doubt very much that either of those certificates would mention blindness.

Any mental or physical conditions attributing to his cause of death would be mentioned but it is unlikely that blindness would be relevant here.

Dea x

Hi Nicola, I think it's highly unlikely that the marriage cert would say if he was blind, unless something in his occupation gave an indication. Couldn't say for certain on the death cert, would think not but someone else may confirm.

I think you really do need to buy the marriage cert to avoid any chance of following the wrong Pleasances.

In 1961 there was a Beatrice Pleasance with a Frederick (no middle name).

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Beatrice Pleasance
Year: 1961
County or Borough: Hackney
Ward or Division/Constituency: Hackney Central
Street Address: 74 Richmond Road

At the same address was a John and Joyce Black, could be related or it could be apartments.

Thanks everyone, I think I need to get more info from family and marriage cert to confirm but I know for certain that Frederick Robert Pleasance born 1900 married in Shoreditch 1925, Beatrice May Iles (born 1902).Frederick robert Pleasance died in 1973 in Hackney and Beatrice died in 1992, southend on sea. William Pleasance snr is nowhere to be seen in 1911 so the William Pleasance on a ship to Canada in 1911 is a explanation (thanks Choccy). The 1939 ER in Hackney from MarieCeleste fits perfectly with the family too.Just one more question to those in the know..would a marriage or death cert state if the person was blind?