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ArgyllGran
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28 Nov 2021 17:31 |
Looking at the image of the original marriage cert on FamilySearch, the middle name looks like Yonnie, which is what the FS transcriber thought too.
The handwriting's hard to make out. The first letter is definitely not J, and I don't think it's Z.
The next marriage cert on the image, on the same day, is for the marriage of a James Shields (presumably Joseph's brother) , 22, bachelor, labourer, to Mary Ann Cox, 19, father Thomas Cox, labourer. James's father is also Joseph Yonnie Shields, painter.
In that instance, the first letter could be Y or Z.
Mary Ann Cox in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Name: Mary Ann Cox Registration Year: 1880 Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec Registration District: Ormskirk Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 1147 Records on Page: Name Mary Ann Cox James Shields
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ArgyllGran
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28 Nov 2021 17:52 |
Trying to find the father, Joseph Yonnie -
I wonder if this is Mary Ann (nee Cox) with James possibly known as Amos ???
Mary Ann Shields in the 1881 England Census Name: Mary Ann Shields Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 Relationship to Head: Visitor Gender: Female Where Born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: North Meols County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address: 6 Old Park Lane Marital status: Married Education: Employment status: View image Registration District: Ormskirk ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: Piece: 3748 Folio: 16 Page Number: 25 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Rowen 37 Bridget Rowen 34 Thomas Rowen 10 Ellen Rowen 8 John Rowen 5 Julia Rowen 1 Martin Staunton 22 Mary Ann Shields 20 - married Amos Shields 21 - married, Liverpool, throstle spinner.
Possible children??
SHIELDS, BRIDGET mmn COX GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 793
SHIELDS, MARY ANN mmn COX GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 853
SHIELDS, JOSEPH HUGH mmn COX GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 826
SHIELDS, JOSEPH HULME mmn COX GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 816
Sadly, both the boys died:
Deaths Sep 1884 (>99%) Shields Joseph Hugh 0 Ormskirk 8b 620
Deaths Dec 1885 (>99%) SHIELDS Joseph Hulme 0 Ormskirk 8b 540
James Shields in the 1891 England Census Name: James Shields Gender: Male Age: 28 Relationship: Son-in-law Birth Year: 1863 Birth Place: Kent, England <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Civil parish: North Meols Ecclesiastical parish: St Cuthbert Residence Place: North Meols, Lancashire, England Registration district: Ormskirk Sub registration district: North Meols ED, Institution or Vessel: 6 Neighbors: Piece: 3034 Folio: 104 Household Members Age Relationship Thomas Cox 67 Head Bridget Cox 55 Wife Patrick Cox 20 Son Thomas Cox 35 Son James Shields 28 Son-in-law Mary Ann Cox 28 Daughter [ Shields on image ] Mary Ann Shields 9 Granddaughter Bridget Shields 1 Granddaughter
However, the clue of Kent doesn't seem to help much.
So far, I'm not seeing the family in later years to verify James's (and presumably Joseph Yonnie's) birthplace.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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28 Nov 2021 18:10 |
Try getting the marriage cert using just his name
From gro typed sheet Dec qtr 1880 Shields Joseph Zoumie Ormskirk 8b 1146
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rootgatherer
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28 Nov 2021 18:55 |
Shirley, the marriage certificate is on FMP. Also for brother James to Mary Ann Cox on the same day.
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ArgyllGran
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28 Nov 2021 19:09 |
And both are on FamilySearch, as mentioned earlier.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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29 Nov 2021 08:14 |
Maybe then try to find the brother on earlier census to establish the line backwards
Although think the poster is trying to find what happened to Joseph between getting married and her moving on to another guy
Looking at the children's births it’s a very short time frame
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ArgyllGran
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29 Nov 2021 11:35 |
Posting only for elimination, because I don't see any sign of a brother called Joseph in this family below:
Thinking about James, said to be 22 at marriage in 1880, though getting gradually younger in 1881 and 1891 censuses -
I wondered if maybe the enumerator in 1891 mis-heard and thought James said he was born in Kent when it might have been Kendal.
SHIELDS, JAMES mmn COYLE GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 564
Parents were Hugh (c1826 Penrith) and Bridget Coyle/Cole, married 1848 Preston.
In 1871 Hugh is called Joseph Hugh, and he's a painter in 1861 and 1871. <<<<<<
I wondered if Zoumie/Yonnie could be a mis-hearing or mis-spelling of Hughie.
James Shields in the 1861 England Census Name: James Shields Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: 1858 Relation: Son Father's Name: Hugh Shields Mother's Name: Bridget Shields Gender: Male Where Born: Kendal, Westmorland, England Civil Parish: Preston Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Town: Preston County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration District: Preston Sub-registration District: Preston ED, institution, or vessel: 41 Neighbors: Household Schedule Number: 80 Piece: 3135 Folio: 83 Page Number: 14 Household Members: Name Age Hugh Shields 35 - house painter Bridget Shields 35 - Fermanagh Ann Shields 11 - Preston John Shields 9 - Preston Edward Shields 5 - Dumfries James Shields 3 - Kendal Sarah Shields 22
The father in 1871:
Jos Hugh Shields in the 1871 England Census Name: Jos Hugh Shields Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: 1826 Relation: Prisoner Gender: Male Where born: Penrith, Cumberland, England Civil parish: Fulwood Ecclesiastical parish: Lancaster County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Preston Sub-registration district: Broughton ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Household schedule number: 155 Piece: 4218 Folio: 20 Page number: 36 Household Members Age Relationship Robert Charnley 43 Head Jane Charnley 44 Wife William Charnley 23 Son Walter Charnley 16 Son Janet Charnley 11 Daughter Robert Charnley 9 Son Jane Charnley 1 Daughter Jos Hugh Shields 45 Prisoner - painter <<<<<<<<<<<<
Address: Police Station.
Hugh Shields in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915 Name: Hugh Shields Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Death Registration Place: Preston, Lancashire, United Kingdom Death Date: Sep 1877 Inferred Death Place: Lancashire, United Kingdom Volume: 8b Page: 328
Bridget and daughter Ann are in a lodging house in Kendal in 1851 - but not Joseph Hugh.
I don't see the birth of their son John, but in 1881 he's married (no wife with him) in Layton, Lancs - a painter, aged 24.
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ArgyllGran
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29 Nov 2021 13:10 |
It's clear that none of us can find Joseph Zoumie/Yonnie either before or after his marriage.
Wherever he was , he wasn't using his middle name - and plain Joseph Shields is a very common name - as is James Shields.
Not knowing definitely where they were born doesn't help.
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ErikaH
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29 Nov 2021 16:37 |
The man who married in 1880 was a Labourer - not a Stonemason - as was James
Address for both at time of marriage was MILTON Street Same for James and his bride
The two couples witnessed each other's marriages.
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ArgyllGran
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29 Nov 2021 17:18 |
Joseph's wife Ann is in Milton Street in 1881 (posted by Andrew in 2013) - but no other Shields with her.
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ArgyllGran
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30 Nov 2021 16:02 |
Just in case the man in prison in 1891 is Joseph Zoumie - though I seriously doubt it, as he's a stonemason - here's one of the many court/prison records. This one gives a list of his aliases:
Joseph Shiel in the UK, Registers of Habitual Criminals and Police Gazettes, 1834-1934 Name: Joseph Shiel [James Edwards] [Joseph Shields] Event Type: Conviction Conviction Age: 60 Birth Date: 1861 Birth Place: Liverpool Conviction Date: 31 Oct 1921 Charge: Carnal knowledge Sentence: 5 years Jail: Parkhurst Occupation: mason
Aliases: Joseph Shiel, James Edwards, Joseph Shields, Robert Murdock, Robert Singleton, James Sullivan, James Brown, James Mellor, James Wilson.
That record and others say he's a mason/stonemason - but this one in 1918 says he's a tobacconist. Same list of aliases, so definitely the same man:
Joseph Shiel in the UK, Registers of Habitual Criminals and Police Gazettes, 1834-1934 Name: Joseph Shiel [James Edwards] [Joseph Shields] Event Type: Conviction Conviction Age: 56 Birth Date: 1862 Birth Place: Liverpool Conviction Date: 10 Jun 1918 Charge: Larceny Sentence: 18 months Jail: Liverpool
Intended address on liberation: 206 Scotland Road, Liverpool
Another record, dated 8 April 1920, says he's a mason, and his intended address on liberation is: 1 Exley Street, Liverpool.
In 1897 he was in London, a stonemason and complete with aliases. Jailed in Portland. Intended address: London Church Army Society.
In the 1901 census, he's in prison in Portland prison, Grove, Dorset - a stonemason.
But it's such a common name. There are other such records which don't give aliases or occupation, so may or may not be the same person.
And you have no reason to think that Joseph Zoumie/Yonnie was in prison - or that he was born in Liverpool, for that matter.
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ArgyllGran
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30 Nov 2021 16:14 |
A final word on the stonemason -
the image of this 1918 record (which calls him a tobacconist) gives a full list of his various convictions from 1882 to 1917, and which alias he used for each one.
I won't attempt to type out the list of convictions, but they took place in Liverpool, Dublin, Southport, Glasgow, Douglas, Knutsford, Llandudno, Tuebrook, Lanark, Blackpool, Manchester, and London.
A "habitual criminal" indeed!
Joseph Shiel in the UK, Calendar of Prisoners, 1868-1929 Name: Joseph Shiel [James Edwards] [Joseph Shields] Trial Date: 1918 Trial Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
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alviegal
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1 Dec 2021 13:18 |
Joseph Hugh's family in 1871, when he is a prisoner.
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Turks Head Yard, Preston, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place George Helm Lodger - Male 51 1820 - Lancashire, England Mary Helm Lodger - Female 52 1819 - Lancashire, England Robert Walsh Lodger - Male 69 1802 - Lancashire, England Peter Matlinson Lodger - Male 65 1806 - Lancashire, England William Buterworth Lodger - Male 66 1805 - Lancashire, England Charles Smith Lodger - Male 44 1827 - Ireland William Lovejoy Lodger - Male 33 1838 - Lancashire, England Bridget Shields Lodger - Female 44 1827 - Ireland Edward Shields Lodger - Male 14 1857 - Ireland Joseph Hugh Lodger - Male 8 1863 - Lancashire, England
Joseph jnr is in jail for 14 days hard labour in Dec 1876 for stealing keys.
THEFT OF KEYS.-Four lads, named Michael Boyle, James Kearms, James Connell, and Joseph Hugh Shields, were charged with stealing 61 keys, of the value of 5s, the property of John Garstang, furniture broker. 02 December 1876 - Preston Chronicle - Preston, Lancashire, England
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ArgyllGran
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1 Dec 2021 16:22 |
Hmmm - interesting, Alviegal! So there is a Joseph in the family after all.
Father Joseph Hugh, a painter. Sons Joseph Hugh c1863 and James 1857.
I don't see Joseph Hugh junior's birth.
This MIGHT perhaps be him in 1901 and 1911 -
Joseph Shields in the 1901 England Census Name: Joseph Shields Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Spouse: Mary Shields Birth Place: Preston, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Blackburn Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address: Registration District: Blackburn Sub-registration District: Blackburn, Northern ED, institution, or vessel: 31 Neighbors: Piece: 3907 Folio: 122 Page Number: 34 Household Schedule Number: 207 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Shields 37 Mary Shields 26 Mary E Shields 8 Edward Shields 7 Peter Shields 4
Joseph Shields in the 1911 England Census Name: Joseph Shields Age in 1911: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 Relation to Head: Lodger Gender: Male Birth Place: Preston, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Blackburn Country: England Street Address: 30 & 32 Leyland St Marital status: Married Occupation: Scissors Grinder Registration District Number: 474 Sub-registration District: Blackburn South Western ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Piece: 25071
Joseph Shields in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915 Name: Joseph Shields Registration Year: 1893 Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun Registration District: Blackburn Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 588 Records on Page: Name Mary McHale Joseph Shields
But if so, he's given up on his middle name somewhere between 1876 and 1901.
I don't see him definitely in 1881 or 1891.
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ArgyllGran
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1 Dec 2021 16:57 |
The father - just in case it's the right family -
PRESTON POLICE INTELLIGENCE
... Stealing a Cap.-Thomas >nUcr pleaded guilty to stealing on the previous night a cap, the property of painter, named Joseph Hugh Shields. The prosecutor, about half past o’clock night, was passing up E. ward street, when the prisoner came up to him, took the cap off his head, and then made off. He was shortly afterwards apprehended, and the cap was found his possession. —The prisoner was committed to gaol for SI [21 ?] days.
Published: Saturday 09 October 1875 Newspaper: Preston Herald County: Lancashire, England
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ArgyllGran
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1 Dec 2021 17:25 |
POLICE INTELLIGENCE
BRUTAL ASSAULT.-A young man, named Joseph Hugh Shields, was charged with having committed a most brutal assault upon his wife. Owing to the injuries she had received, she was unable to appear against him.-Mr. Edwin Moore, surgeon, said that be had been called in to attend upon the prisoner's wife. She was much hurt, apparently from very savage kicks and blows. Her left eye had been laid open, and she had lost a deal of blood from her thighs and ?? Blackburn said that she saw the disturbance between the prisoner and his wife. She remonstrated with the prisoner at the time on his conduct, but, in return she got nothing but threats from him.-Mr. Moore said that very probably by next Wednesday the woman would have so far recovered as to be able to ap- ?? Bench, therefore, remanded the case until that day.
Published: Wednesday 11 September 1861 Newspaper: Preston Chronicle County: Lancashire, England
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