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EDIT It reads Timothy on the actuall form and he is a Bricklayers Lab.



Here they are in 1871 with Ellen her dau down as Ellen Verlander.


1871 England Census about Ellen Verlander
Name: Ellen Verlander
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Smithy Verlander
Mother's Name: Eliza Verlander
Gender: Female
Where born: Myland, Essex, England
Civil Parish: St Peter
Town: Colchester
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration District: Colchester
Sub-registration District: Colchester Second Ward
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household Schedule Number: 46
Piece: 1686
Folio: 138
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Smithy Verlander 29
Eliza Verlander 39
Ellen Verlander 9*********************************
Alice Verlander 6
William S Verlander 3
Jane Verlander 2
James Verlander 11 Months

Thanks Adeline - I'm not sure about that 1861 census, as her birth year would be 1837, and Eliza had consistently put her birth year as between 1831 and 1833, in 1871-1901 census (which I'm 100% sure are the right entries, based on the rest of the family members).

Perhaps an idea would be for me to to try and trace any further details of this Gt Horkesley Eliza Bibby 1837, and see if she develops into a definitely different person to my one?

Could this be Eliza in 1861 at Mill Road, Mile End, Colchester?

SMITH, John Head Married M 63 1798 Carpenter And Beer House Keeper
Colchester, Essex
SMITH, Pamla Wife Married F 70 1791 Langham, Essex
GARWOOD, Rosanna Granddaughter Unmarried F 24 1837 Tailoress
Mile End, Essex
BIBBY, Eliza Servant Unmarried F 24 1837 House Maid
Great Horksley, Essex
CLUBB, Smith Visitor Unmarried M 10 1851 Millwright
Colchester, Essex

Great Horksley Nayland and Colchester are not very far apart. I used to drive through Nayland and great horksley to get to my shop just outside Colchester.

Yes Porkie_Pie, Eliza did marry Timothy Verlander in 1866. I guess I need to buy their marriage certificate? So if I had that it would count in or out that 1841 family perhaps?

Thank you for that Maddie. Yes, that's the 1841 family. But there's nothing else in those details to connect them together, and Great Horkesley is never mentioned in Eliza's census submissions in later years, always Myland or Colchester, Essex. Not convinced that it's her. But maybe I'm being overcautious?

Cannot help with her birth but Eliza may have married? either a Mr VERLANDER or a Mr SARGEANT

The marriage cert should list her fathers details,


Marriages Mar 1866??


BIBBY Eliza Colchester 4a 297
HILL Ann Colchester 4a 297
SARGEANT Ephraim G Colchester 4a 297
VERLANDER Timothy Colchester 4a 297

Roy

is this the family you mean in 1841
BIBBY, James M 40 1801 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Harriett F 30 1811 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Mary F 18 1823 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Sarah F 15 1826 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, George M 14 1827 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Charlotte F 12 1829 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Eliza F 8 1833 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Emily F 6 1835 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, William M 5 1836 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Philip M 1 1840 Essex VIEW

Piece: 334

Book/Folio: 28

Page: 3

Registration District: Lexden & Winstree

Civil Parish: Great Horkesley

Municipal Borough:

Address: Wood House, Great Horkesley

County: Essex

Hello - I'm trying to trace the parents and birth details of Eliza Bibby who had a daughter out of wedlock (Ellen 30/12/1861 - I have Ellen's birth certificate, no father named, mother Elisa Bibby Factory Worker, mother, Union Workhouse Colchester).
I can't find Eliza in the 1861 or 1851 census.
There is an Eliza Bibby in the 1841 census, but without the connection with the intervening census, I'm worried to rely on it being the correct family.