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Hello - I'm trying to trace the parents and birth details of Eliza Bibby who had a daughter out of wedlock (Ellen 30/12/1861 - I have Ellen's birth certificate, no father named, mother Elisa Bibby Factory Worker, mother, Union Workhouse Colchester).
I can't find Eliza in the 1861 or 1851 census.
There is an Eliza Bibby in the 1841 census, but without the connection with the intervening census, I'm worried to rely on it being the correct family.

is this the family you mean in 1841
BIBBY, James M 40 1801 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Harriett F 30 1811 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Mary F 18 1823 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Sarah F 15 1826 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, George M 14 1827 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Charlotte F 12 1829 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Eliza F 8 1833 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Emily F 6 1835 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, William M 5 1836 Essex VIEW
BIBBY, Philip M 1 1840 Essex VIEW

Piece: 334

Book/Folio: 28

Page: 3

Registration District: Lexden & Winstree

Civil Parish: Great Horkesley

Municipal Borough:

Address: Wood House, Great Horkesley

County: Essex

Cannot help with her birth but Eliza may have married? either a Mr VERLANDER or a Mr SARGEANT

The marriage cert should list her fathers details,


Marriages Mar 1866??


BIBBY Eliza Colchester 4a 297
HILL Ann Colchester 4a 297
SARGEANT Ephraim G Colchester 4a 297
VERLANDER Timothy Colchester 4a 297

Roy

Thank you for that Maddie. Yes, that's the 1841 family. But there's nothing else in those details to connect them together, and Great Horkesley is never mentioned in Eliza's census submissions in later years, always Myland or Colchester, Essex. Not convinced that it's her. But maybe I'm being overcautious?

Yes Porkie_Pie, Eliza did marry Timothy Verlander in 1866. I guess I need to buy their marriage certificate? So if I had that it would count in or out that 1841 family perhaps?

Great Horksley Nayland and Colchester are not very far apart. I used to drive through Nayland and great horksley to get to my shop just outside Colchester.

Could this be Eliza in 1861 at Mill Road, Mile End, Colchester?

SMITH, John Head Married M 63 1798 Carpenter And Beer House Keeper
Colchester, Essex
SMITH, Pamla Wife Married F 70 1791 Langham, Essex
GARWOOD, Rosanna Granddaughter Unmarried F 24 1837 Tailoress
Mile End, Essex
BIBBY, Eliza Servant Unmarried F 24 1837 House Maid
Great Horksley, Essex
CLUBB, Smith Visitor Unmarried M 10 1851 Millwright
Colchester, Essex

Thanks Adeline - I'm not sure about that 1861 census, as her birth year would be 1837, and Eliza had consistently put her birth year as between 1831 and 1833, in 1871-1901 census (which I'm 100% sure are the right entries, based on the rest of the family members).

Perhaps an idea would be for me to to try and trace any further details of this Gt Horkesley Eliza Bibby 1837, and see if she develops into a definitely different person to my one?

EDIT It reads Timothy on the actuall form and he is a Bricklayers Lab.



Here they are in 1871 with Ellen her dau down as Ellen Verlander.


1871 England Census about Ellen Verlander
Name: Ellen Verlander
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Smithy Verlander
Mother's Name: Eliza Verlander
Gender: Female
Where born: Myland, Essex, England
Civil Parish: St Peter
Town: Colchester
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration District: Colchester
Sub-registration District: Colchester Second Ward
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household Schedule Number: 46
Piece: 1686
Folio: 138
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Smithy Verlander 29
Eliza Verlander 39
Ellen Verlander 9*********************************
Alice Verlander 6
William S Verlander 3
Jane Verlander 2
James Verlander 11 Months

Myland an alternative to the original "Mile End" is a civil parish in Essex, England that is now a suburb of Colchester. The original village was located approximately one mile north of the middleborough, or the centre of the Borough of Colchester. It probably acquired its name from its distance from the centre of Colchester.

Great Horkesley is a small village approximately 3 miles north of Colchester in the county of Essex, UK, and is part of the borough of Colchester.

The two villages are only a mile or so apart, I wouldn't discount Eliza being from somewhere in between the two and "Myland" being the better known place to mention at census time or the family having moved when she was younger and she thought she was from Myland when asked herself.

Hi Mel Fairy Codmother - I've just google-mapped Nayland, Great Horkesley and Myland/Mile End in Colchester. And they are all in a line, as you say, not very far from one another. This makes it so hard to be sure of anything, doesn't it!

You REALLY do need that marriage cert. which would hopefully give the name and occupation of her father.

The witnesses also may help as they are ofter family members.

Dea x

There's an Eliza Bibby age 11 in 1851 census, born Gt Horkesley, Essex - so that would make her born about 1840. She is from a different family from my suspected 1841 family (parents James and Harriett):

Robert Bibby 37
Simon Whiles 16
Mary Ann Bibby 13
Eliza Bibby 11
Jane Bibby 9
Maria Bibby 7
Mary Whalen 66
Anne Harland 40

Yes, you are right, Dea - I'm just going through the process of buying it now....
thanks

Order it through GRO - other sites can charge LOTS more than the £9.25 which they will charge you!

Dea Xxx

Looks like the same family from 1841,


All 1851 England Census Results
1851 England Census about Eliza Bibbey
Name: Eliza Bibbey
[Eliza Constable]
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Danniel Constable
Mother's Name: Mary Constable
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Gt Horksley, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Mile End
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration District: Colchester
Sub-registration District: Colchester First Ward
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 41
Piece: 1781
Folio: 361
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Danniel Constable 35
Mary Constable 29
James Bibbey 50 >>> father in law, widow
Charlotte Bibbey 22
Eliza Bibbey 20
Emily Bibbey 18
William Bibbey 16
Phillip Bibbey 14
Esther Bibbey 8
Harrey Bibbey 4 months

Great sleuthing BatMansDaughter! This looks definitely like the same family from 1841! Thank you, I'll now have more of an investigation of the rest of that family while I wait for Eliza Bibby and Timothy Verlander's marriage certificate.
Thanks everyone!

I have received Eliza Bibby and Timothy Verlander's marriage certificate 8 Jan 1866, Colchester Register Office. Her father is James Bibby, and one witness is Charlotte Durrant, who I've traced as Eliza's sister. So BatMansDaughter is right that the 1851 family contains my Eliza Bibby.

Now onto the next step of finding out more about Eliza's mother, "Harriet" from the 1841 census, so I can find out her surname. I found a marriage of a James Bibby, Great Horkesley, Essex to a Sara Church in 1818... but no Harriets. Having difficulty finding any parish register details of any of the Bibby children (and thereby details of their mother). Any suggestions - although I guess it might be time to get down to wherever the Essex parish registers are held, if they're not online anywhere?

Thanks everyone.

The Parish Registers for Essex are available through a subscription site. They are not indexed.

https://secureweb1.essexcc.gov.uk/SeaxPAM2012/EssexAncestors.aspx

I have had a quick look and it appears James may have married more than once.

Baptisms at Great Horkesley
To James and Sarah
1 Jan 1823 Charles, Mary and Sarah

To James and Harriet
26 Oct 1828 George
7 June 1829 Charlotte
19 Feb 1832 Eliza
2 Nov 1834 Emmily
15 Feb 1837 William

No marriage in Great Horkesley for a James and Harriet.

Chris

Thank you Chris - is this something you have a subscription for? Could be a fascinating resource. Just looking at the free stuff at the moment, for Bibby generally. Very interesting. Thanks very much for the tip off!