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Thnx I will.

I hope you have some luck with the death certificate(s)

Please let us know how you get on

Thanx everyone, I have now just sent for 2 death certs of Mary J Martin, fingers.
crossed.

This looks like Robert (death reg is spelt Devline)



Name:Robert Devlin of: 42 Gunner St

Probate Date:25 Feb 1958

Registry:London, England

Death Date:2 Jan 1958

Death Place:Portsmouth

Admin to: Mary Ann Devlin - widow

the other one in 1939

Robert Devlin 1886 Portsmouth C.B. Hampshire #23
Mary J Lee 1865 Portsmouth C.B. Hampshire #21
John H Martin 1878 Portsmouth C.B. Hampshire #22

so it looks as if she is the head of household (first number in sequence)

she probably simply had boarders

given the Portsmouth location, this could be Robert Devlin in 1911 -

Name: Robert Devlin
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Birth Place: Camlachie, Glasgow, Scotland
Civil Parish: Australia and South Africa
County/Island: Royal Navy
Marital Status: Single
ED, institution, or vessel: Vessels

probably not the same John Martin in 1911 -

Name: John Martin
Age in 1911: 33
Estimated Birth Year: 1878
Birth Place: Brighton, England
County/Island: Military
Country: England
Military Unit: 1st Royal Dragoons
Registration District Number: 641
ED, institution, or vessel: India

... I was just amused by the fact that if this were 65 years ago I could have asked my grandfather about that one as they were in the same list (albeit different pages) :-)





Gins any chance you can squash things up by removing all the big spaces and single-spacing the record copies? the thread is so much easier to read then

Where is the name 'Devlin' from please?


Name:Mary J Martin

Birth Date:abt 1864

Date of Registration:Mar 1955

Age at Death:91

Registration district:Portsmouth

Inferred County:Hampshire

Volume:6b

Page:599
---------------------------------------

Name:Mary J Martin

Birth Date:abt 1866

Date of Registration:Dec 1953

Age at Death:87

Registration district:Portsmouth

Inferred County:Hampshire

Volume:6b

Page:413

Ok Thanks. Are these couple of deaths under the name of Mary Jane Martin? The other name is Devlin, & he sounds very Irish, There is a possibility that one of them may have been after her money or house. I will look up the Portsmouth churchyard burial records under these surnames.

1939 Register - Portsmouth


Mary J Lee 1865
John H Martin and 1 more person are on this record

Maybe John H Martin was her 'partner' and possibly took his name at some point.

There are a couple of deaths in Portsmouth that could be a match

that info is given in the OP of the thread started yesterday ...

'I am still searching for the death of my Great Grandmother Mary Jane Lee. She lived in Balfour Road Portsmouth in 1939 on electoral Roll & listed as Incapacitated.'

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1355962

see what time gets wasted ..............

She appears to be on the 1939 register I think, Portsmouth.

one hardly knows which thread to add to at this point


but this one seems to have the most info so here goes

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7998948

Reference: J 77/844/5666
Description:

Divorce Court File: 5666.
Appellant: Frederick John Butlin.
Respondent: Mary Jane Butlin.
Co-respondent: William Lee.
Type: Husband's petition for divorce [HD].
Date: 1905
Held by: The National Archives, Kew


Sheil it is no good whatsoever you having information if no one else has the same information


today's thread:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1355962

and another older one:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1347040


also Sheil for future ref you should stop marking things 'answered' as what that does is mark you entire thread as answered, as if you do not need any more help ... just post answers to questions as they arise in the thread

I'm sorry, I thought I did, it's just that I knew most of what you & others said but it's the D.O.D burial I'm stuck at. Thanks anyway.

No definitely not a bigamous second marriage, as they were divorced in 1905, There still should be a burial for Mary Jane Lee but I can't place her at Andover. I do have a photo of her taken in Portsmouth during the 30's & she s in a wheelchair being pushed by her Daughter Eliza Quinton. She looks about late 70's or 80's.

I don't know if they were cousins or not. Frederick William Butlin was my Grandfather & he changed his name to Lee when his mother remarried again to William Lee in 1907 after her divorce from Frederick John Butlin in 1905. Hubsdells seem to be a Step-part of the Ubsdell family, not sure why called Hubsdell tho, it does seem very strange but looks like the Step-part of the family decided to put an H at the beginning I'm guessing.

Good point Miss Marple!

:-)

Gins,

If the death in 1944 is correct for Frederick John Butlin, perhaps that is why she married William Lee using her maiden name instead of her married name. Perhaps her second marriage was bigamous. Lots of people did marry bigamously when divorce was so expensive and difficult to get.

Kath. x

You might be right Kath

This is the PR for the death in 1944



England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name:Frederick John Butlin

Probate Date:13 Jun 1945

Death Date:28 Nov 1944

Death Place:Portsmouth

Registry:Llandudno


Administration to: Ruth Butlin - widow


Looks like they were both at it ;-)


Marriages Jun 1906
-----------------------------------------------------
Butlin Frederick John Portsmouth 2b 1197
Clifford Ruth Portsmouth 2b 1197

Perhaps Frederick John Butler (or Butlin) was a cousin of Mary Jane Ubsdell. Cousins often married.

Kath. x

This is odd???


1881 England Census

Name:
Frederick John Butler
[Frederick John Butlin]

Age:15

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1866

Relationship to Head:Step Son

Mother:Eliza Caroline Hubsdell


Where born:Portsea, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish:Portsea

County/Island:Hampshire

Street Address:52 Emanuel Street

Occupation:
Trade (Errand) Boy HMD YD

Registration District:Portsea Island

Sub-registration District:Kingston

ED, institution, or vessel:16

Piece:1141
Folio:141
Page Number:57


James Edward Hubsdell 46
Eliza Caroline Hubsdell 39
Walter Clark Hubsdell 21
John Edward Hubsdell 15
Henry Hubsdell 13
Edith Louisa Hubsdell 9
Albert Hubsdell 7
Frederick John Butler 15


Looking at a death for him, 1944 seems to be a match yet Mary Jane married again in 1907!!