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marie celeste

"is lawrence hiding from creditors in 1851 "

he could of course be in lancaster prison which was the largest prison for debtors in the country

chas Ho :)

"lawrence monk burial 28 june 1864"

yes i believe that is my lawremce but as i say above his age is wrong. i dont believe lawrence was born in 1824 it was 1818 or 1820 :) i think

surviving children of lawrence and elizabeth monk

flora married ashton
mary married aspenwall then aspinall
ann married williams
margaret married varey
elizabeth married hardman
john married bulger

mary monk married robert aspenwall1868 ormskirk
robert 30
mary 18

they had a son called lawrence

both robert and lawrence died within the year of the marriage

how intriguing !

next mary married mr aspinall who was also much older

patchem

"lawrence monk died 1864 ormskirk"

i think this is my lawrence BUT i have seen a record saying lawrence was 40 at death, there is a discrepancy somewhere

marie celeste

it is ages since i bought a certificate

where do i get them from ?

marie celeste

that is the marriage of lawrence monk to elizabeth ireland

marriage 28 oct 1839 preston st john
lawrence monk dealer in pots of friday street age 21
elizabeth ireland earthenware dealer of bow lane age 21
father william monk earthenware dealer
spouse father john ireland earthenware dealer
witness thomas aspendell martha jameson

the wedding announcement was in the press and later some details of bankruptcy for lawrence in 1849

"living next door to the boyes family and elizabeth monk and baby william in 1841 is thomas aspinall"

there is a DEFINITE connection between monk and aspinall//aspendell/aspinwall families.

lawrence monk parents are william and mary monk

however there are 2 lawrence monk of the same age and location

and to make matters worse BOTH lawrence monk have parents named william and mary monk

however the parents occupations are different an earthenware dealer and a weaver

to add to the confusion there are also 2 mary aspinalls

chorley marriage for lawrence monk

1814
william monk weaver
mary atherton

1816
william monk x
mary aspinall x

chorley births
1802
mary d of john and sarah aspinall

1803
mary d of issac and alice aspinall

patchem

they are a difficult family

cant find lawrence in 1841 census even though his wife elizabeth and son william are listed

the whole monk family is missing in 1851

Marriage: 21 May 1871 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
Henry Greenall - (X), 22, Piecer, Bachelor, Barlow St
Alice Monks - (X), 22, Weaver, Spinster, Heysham St
Groom's Father: James Greenall, Paviour
Bride's Father: Henry Monks, Overlooker
Witness: John Thompson, (X); Mary Jane Monks, (X)
Married by Banns by: Edmund Lee, Curate
Register: Marriages 1870 - 1871, Page 150, Entry 299
Source: LDS Film 93999

Thankyou MC, above rules them out then!.

Chris :)

I think this 1881 may be the couple referred to in that 1871 marriage:

GREENALL, Ann Head Widow F 65 1816 Preston, Lancashire
GREENALL, John Son Single M 45 1836 Cotton Weaver Preston, Lancashire
GREENALL, Henry Son Married M 32 1849 Plumber Preston, Lancashire <<
GREENALL, Alice Wife Married F 32 1849 Cotton Weaver Preston, Lancashire <<
GREENALL, James Grand Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar Preston, Lancashire
GREENALL, John Grand Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar Preston, Lancashire
GREENALL, Ann Jane Grand Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar Preston, Lancashire
GREENALL, Sarah Grand Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar Preston, Lancashire
GREENALL, Ann Grand Daughter Single F 0 1881 Preston, Lancashire

Piece: 4233 Folio: 146 Page: 20
Registration District: Preston
Civil Parish: Preston

Address: 42, Barlow Street, Preston County: Lancashire

Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
GREENALL Henry Preston 8e 756
MONKS Alice Preston 8e 756


Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries .
The Preston Guardian etc (Preston, England), Saturday, May 27, 1871

(on 21st at Parish Church, Preston, Mr Henry Greenall to Miss Alice Monk)

(saw above, not sure if you have this, or if it relates!)

Chris :)

Headline: DEATH FROM BURNING

Publication:Preston Chronicle
Publication date:Saturday 08 March 1856

Article text:
"Some six or seven weeks ago the infant daughter of Elizabeth Monk received serious injury from her clothes having caught fire. Medical assistance was procured, and the little sufferer received the greatest care and attention, but gradually sank notwithstanding, and on Monday morning last was found dead in bed by her mother".

There are two deaths for Alice Monk on FreeBMD in 1856:

Deaths Mar 1856
Monk Alice Chorley 8e 2__
Monk Alice Preston * _2_

I've checked the image and they are two entirely separate entries. The Chorley one will be the burial record for the 22 year old that has already been posted.

I strongly suspect that the Preston one is the child referred to in the newspaper article and the subject of the original enquiry.

From the newspapers:

Headline: LANCASTER INSOLVENT COURT.
Publication:Liverpool Mercury
Publication date:Tuesday 14 August 1849

Included in the insolvency petitions

Lawrence Monk, hawker and earthenware dealer, formerly of Latham, near Ormskirk

(Hmm, was he in hiding from creditors in 1851?)

Burial
County Lancashire
Place Ormskirk
Church St Peter and St Paul Chapel
RegisterNumber 2209
BurialDate 28 Jun 1864
Forename Lawrence
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname MONK
Age 40
Abode Ormskirk

(should perhaps be JAN?)

Chris :)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl


County Lancashire
Place Ormskirk
Church Parish Church
RegisterNumber 55
MarriageDate 11 Dec 1865
GroomForename Richard
GroomSurname WILLIAMS
GroomAge
GroomParish Ormskirk
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Hawker
GroomAbode Ormskirk
BrideForename Ann
BrideSurname MONK
BrideAge 19
BrideParish Ormskirk
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Ormskirk
GroomFatherForename Richard
GroomFatherSurname WILLIAMS
GroomFatherOccupation Earthenware dealer
BrideFatherForename Lawrence
BrideFatherSurname MONK
BrideFatherOccupation Deceased
WitnessOneForename Arthur
WitnessOneSurname ASHTON
WitnessTwoForename James
WitnessTwoSurname DIXON

County Lancashire
Place Ormskirk
Church Parish Church
RegisterNumber 131
MarriageDate 10 Aug 1868
GroomForename Robert
GroomSurname ASPINWALL
GroomAge
GroomParish Ormskirk
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Hawker
GroomAbode Ormskirk
BrideForename Mary
BrideSurname MONK
BrideAge 18
BrideParish Ormskirk
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Ormskirk
GroomFatherForename John
GroomFatherSurname ASPINWALL
GroomFatherOccupation Hawker
BrideFatherForename Lawrence
BrideFatherSurname MONK
BrideFatherOccupation Deceased
WitnessOneForename Arthur
WitnessOneSurname ASHTON
WitnessTwoForename Flora
WitnessTwoSurname ASHTON


Marriages Sep 1863 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Ashton Arthur Ormskirk 8b 1013
MONK Flora Ormskirk 8b 1013

(if relating)

Do you know if this is Lawrence?

Deaths Mar 1864
MONK Lawrence Ormskirk 8b 644

Extracted from the long string of baptisms that Reggie posted:

Baptism: 9 Feb 1851 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Mary Monk - [Child] of Lawrence Monk & Elizabeth
Abode: Lathom
Occupation: Earthenware Dealer
Baptised by: John T Brien, Curate
Register: Baptisms 1844 - 1855, Page 316, Entry 2526
Source: LDS Film 1849665

Might be worth buying the birth certificate to see where they were living and then checking for that address on the 1851 census. (They may have been badly mis-transcribed). I can't see Ormskirk as being included on the list of known missing parts of the 1851.

I hope you don't mind me posting a shorter version of the 1841:

BOYES, William M 25 1816 Lancashire - mugman
BOYES, Mary F 25 1816 Lancashire
BOYES, Ann F 8 1833 Lancashire
BOYES, Mary F 1 1840 Lancashire
MONK, Elizabeth F 19 1822 Lancashire
MONK, Wm M 0 (4 months) 1841 Lancashire
HOULT, Jane F 15 1826 Lancashire
BARKER, Elizabeth F 18 1823 Lancashire

Piece: 515 Book/Folio: 5/46 Page: 6
Registration District: Ormskirk
Civil Parish: Ormskirk

Address: Scarth Hill, Ormskirk, Lathom County: Lancashire

Living next door is a Thos Aspinall - may have been the one who was a witness to their marriage?

David, being stubborn is no bad thing when doing family research, otherwise it would sometimes be too easy to give up when you hit a brick wall. However, sometimes you do have to step back and be objective, though!

Just to give us a basis to work from, I think this is Lawrence and Elizabeth's marriage (Elizabeth's family name should read Ireland):

Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936

Name: Lawrence Monk, dealer in pots, of Friday Street
Age: 21
Birth Year: abt 1818
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Oct 1839
Parish: Preston, St John
Spouse: Elizabeth Treland - earthenware dealer of Bow Lane
Spouse Age: 21
Father: William Monk - earthenware dealer
Spouse Father: John Treland - earthenware dealer
Reference Number: El3 6/14

Neither previously married.

Witnesses: Thomas Aspendell and Martha Jamieson


ADDED: From the newspapers:

Headline: Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries
Publication:Preston Chronicle
Publication date:Saturday 02 November 1839

"On Monday last, Mr. Lawrence Monk to Miss Elizabeth Ireland"

Sorry,
I removed my posting as Reggie had already posted the 1861 census.
But I agree, without Alice showing in 1861 then the most obvious conclusion is that she died.
However, I am'annoyed' that I cannot find the family in 1851. (Perhaps water-damaged or missing?)

:-S

patchem

you have all clarified my thinking

i agree alice must have died

i tend to be a little stubborn at times

"Latham is Lathom and Ulnes Walton is near Chorley?." yes i think so

MarieCeleste

David - there are a few Alice Monks in Lancashire, how do you know those 1871 banns relate to yours? It could be a different Alice Monk.

yes BUT

i think the age and location is about right and

the name YATES is on a family gravestone in preston old cemetery

perhaps im grabbing at straws